Should I say something? Overpaying for a guitar.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by stringjunky2

False equivalence. What the seller did is not a crime. Apple, and many others, is shafting people everyday.

Yep, so let's all be jerks like them? And yes, theft by deception is a crime.

Like Paddy says, we don't have all the information, but based on what we have, doing the right thing can't be that hard to figure out.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

This is true. But at the very least, the name and identity of the type of individual who would do this to a school kid should be made known, and he should be publicly shamed.

Known to whom? Do you read the posts? It was a "friend" of his. No one to shame but the person who chose to over pay. Therefore, best to say away.

[Denny B]

If I knew a decent kid who had a "friend" who'd seemingly ripped him off this way, I'd risk some fallout by FYI'ing the parents and letting them proceed from there...

If they'd intentionally misled the kid, or were embarrassed about being duped themselves and got angry at me, I'd write it off and know that I could lay my head on my pillow in good conscience for at least trying to do what my head & heart told me was the decent thing to do...

I'm not critiquing or weighing in on anyone else's opinions, just saying what I would do...

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by darfaz

A student of mine (I'm a schoolteacher, not a guitar teacher) performs in local events. We have talked guitar on various occasions: prices, brands, woods, even saddle material. He recently purchased a used Taylor that is a nice guitar. Since we've talked brands and "deals" he's gotten before, I asked him what he paid for the guitar. It was about 2x new retail price for the model. So my question is, should I say something? Or is ignorance bliss? He really likes the guitar, but the guy totally got swindled. My only reason for saying something would be maybe he had a "trial" period with the guitar and could possibly get his money back.

Fwiw, based on the information you’ve provided, here’s my take.....
- This student is not a “kid”.
- He has performance experience under his belt and by extension has withstood the trials of acceptance and rejection, obviously with confidence to carry on. I sense a maturity on most levels, maybe just not in buying guitars.
- You have fostered a relationship with him beyond class curriculum on a subject that you are both passionate about. This has placed you in a unique position. On some level, you have become his friend, and mentor.
- You are a teacher. There is a learning experience for him before you. Although there are sensitivities involved and additional information you can learn from him, there is definitely a way to approach it to help him not make the same mistake again, nor feel ashamed. I say be a friend. I say teach. Keep it between you and him...don’t go to mommy and daddy. Inappropriate imo, and he won’t like you for it (remember when you were that age).

All just my opinion. I hope you do it.

[phavriluk]

I agree that OP has posed a problem of Talmudic complexity, although it superficially seems not to be very convoluted. At the base of it, a student of this teacher disclosed to the teacher what he paid for this guitar. Or what he claims he paid. Or what his parent who funded the guitar paid, and then puffed up the dollar amount to elevate his hero status to the child. Nobody knows. Nobody knows the age of the student. From what we're told, I think the student offered too much information to the teacher and lit the fuse on this discussion.

My personal reaction is to stay away. The teacher heard what he shouldn't have been told, the price of the guitar. No one knows how it came to be that the student disclosed the amount he thinks was paid for the guitar. That's why we have social rules about disclosure of information that doesn't need to be told, it's to avoid can't-win situations like this one.

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by Paddy1951

So my question is this. Does anybody know the exact circumstances of the sale?
Without knowing all the facts of the sale speculations and assumptions can be made and change nothing.

Allow me to second this opinion. The only information that anyone has to work with was posted by the OP on two meager posts.

While it may seem that the 2K was paid for a 200 series Taylor, maybe there's more. Was it really a 200 series? But what was the actual exact amount? What was given for the money? Maybe the OP somehow got the amount wrong. Maybe the buyer accidentally claimed the wrong amount. Also nowhere does it mention the age of the participants, the buyer and the seller. Are they minors? If I had to guess based on the amount that putatively changed hands, I would doubt they are minors. And if they are friends, they are probably about the same age. And just because the self-described teacher would be older than the buyer, that doesn't mean the buyer is a current student.

I'm in my 70s and I still refer to my High School teachers as my teachers. And having met some former teachers after I graduated, I still used the honorific term 'Mister' when addressing them even though I was an adult at the time. And I always used an honorific when addressing my sons' teachers. So being a teacher does not guarantee that the student is a minor. Maybe they are already graduated or college age or beyond. Some of my high school teachers were only 5 or 6 years older than me (I was 16 when I started HS). And I certainly didn't carry around 2 Gs (2K in modern parlance) at any point in High School. Come to think about it, having a C-note was a big deal ($100.00).

So I made a lot of possible assumptions here that ultimately may be incorrect guesses. Given the lack of facts about this, I will reiterate there seems to be a rush to judgement about all this.

Don
.

[Kh1967]

Originally Posted by darfaz

I really appreciate the comments. I think I will just let it go. As much as I want to say something, the chances of him recouping any losses is very low. It is just so hard to see someone pay over $2K for a 200 series used Taylor. He said it was purchased from a friend. Around my community, live, acoustic music isn't really huge, so people often don't know what to value their stuff at.

I may have missed it, but I think the OP made up their mind long ago. That said, perhaps they are still reading.

My suggestion would be to ask the student more details around the transaction and possibly show him/her some prices on the internet. By doing so, you let the internet become the factual resource in the equation and the student can learn from your guidance, and also learn how to research.

This is a very uncomfortable situation, but also a valuable learning experience. I am old fashioned this way...if someone needs help, and I can give it, I do so. Sometimes, it requires a delicate approach, but assisting can help prevent future financial mishaps. Some of the best lessons of my life were financial ones...it helped me tremendously in my adulthood and am grateful, to this day, for those who went out of their way to guide me.

[offkey]

Interesting thread. I would leave it go, the young man did not ask advise, only shared the excitement of a new guitar. My experience has been that doing the right thing, especially when it's not my thing, leads to unforeseen issues. Or in other words, no good deed goes unpunished.

[musicman1951]

If you think you have some obligation as an educator to make sure a younger member of the planet didn't get outrageously taken advantage of you should say something.

If you think we are all out here on our own and getting screwed with his pants on is his problem you should say nothing.

[Mbroady]

I’m torn on this one. Mainly because the guitar was sold to him by a “Friend”
If it was a retail outlet then I would tell him. Being it was purchased from a friend, then it becomes more of a “sticking your nose in were it don’t belong” kinda situation.

However, If I knew the “Friend” I would be tempted shame him, but would need more info before going that route.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

I agree that OP has posed a problem of Talmudic complexity, although it superficially seems not to be very convoluted. At the base of it, a student of this teacher disclosed to the teacher what he paid for this guitar. Or what he claims he paid. Or what his parent who funded the guitar paid, and then puffed up the dollar amount to elevate his hero status to the child. Nobody knows. Nobody knows the age of the student. From what we're told, I think the student offered too much information to the teacher and lit the fuse on this discussion.

My personal reaction is to stay away. The teacher heard what he shouldn't have been told, the price of the guitar. No one knows how it came to be that the student disclosed the amount he thinks was paid for the guitar. That's why we have social rules about disclosure of information that doesn't need to be told, it's to avoid can't-win situations like this one.

Excellent response with some extremely valid points for consideration.

[Jcamp]

I’m with everyone else. I wouldn’t come straight out and tell him it isn’t worth that much. He’s in the honeymoon stage with his guitar. In a few weeks you might just mention “you knwo you’ll probably eventually get the urge to buy another guitar and when you do you should visit a site called Acoustic Guitar Forum cause they have some some members there that sell used guitars at great prices and Sponsors that make great deals on new gear”. That away he will still feel good on his new guitar but also knwo where to find a fair deal on his next one.
Also I’m assuming $2k is tough for a kid to get (sure was when I was young) so his parents probably bought it and either got took or told him a higher price so he’d take better care of it. In the end if he has the guitar for 10 yeas he only over paid a around .30 cents a day. So let the kid enjoy it and learn and learn and learn some more. Once he does find out it’s just a lesson in life

[Golffishny]

I once paid too much for a used truck. It was at a time when I didn't have alot of money to spend. I found out a year later from a friend. I still enjoyed the truck but that lesson made me a more informed consumer for everything I buy. I would want to know.

[string1399]

I'm pretty sure that some time down the road, the student is going to find out that he got hosed. Then the student may wonder why the teacher he confided in didn't inform him of the situation when the student may have had an opportunity to get his money back.


Food for thought.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

I agree that OP has posed a problem of Talmudic complexity, although it superficially seems not to be very convoluted. At the base of it, a student of this teacher disclosed to the teacher what he paid for this guitar. Or what he claims he paid. Or what his parent who funded the guitar paid, and then puffed up the dollar amount to elevate his hero status to the child. Nobody knows. Nobody knows the age of the student. From what we're told, I think the student offered too much information to the teacher and lit the fuse on this discussion.

My personal reaction is to stay away. The teacher heard what he shouldn't have been told, the price of the guitar. No one knows how it came to be that the student disclosed the amount he thinks was paid for the guitar. That's why we have social rules about disclosure of information that doesn't need to be told, it's to avoid can't-win situations like this one.

Absolutely, 100% on the button.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.