How long does it take for a solid spruce top to 'open up'?

[warfrat73]

There should be a big hole in it from the get go, about 3 1/2-4". Did yours not come with one?

[TBman]

I'm not sure if guitars "open up" over time (not referring to the short-term "playing in" change). Maybe our appreciation of our instruments just increases as we get older.

[Sigmoid]

Good topic......my Sigma has a Sitka top and opens up after about 10 mins....the initial cost was around $400...... I play it more than I ever played my Larrivee L-05R.....which was 10 years old and has moved on....and to my aging ears, the Sigma sounds just as good...so really, it's all about what sounds good to you, the player.....

[DESERTRAT1]

I have no idea whether guitar tops open up over time or not. I also don't know whether, in any given case, that would be a good thing or a bad thing. My wishful thinking is that I would like to believe they don't change much since obviously I liked what I was hearing at the time of purchase and I'd kind of like it to stay that way.

[DavidWhitehurst]

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

With new guitars, I hear the solid sitka spruce tops are not opened-up yet,
and with age and playing, they open-up and sound better.
I was wondering what others say about this, in regards to the time it takes,
and if it can be accelerated, or does it just take much time and much playing?

I'm going to say that even really nice guitars get better with time. I have a 25 year old Guild that sounds really nice. I also have a brand new Taylor 818e and it's opened up already. That's probably why I bought it. I "thought" I wanted a Martin. I was going to get my dream guitar and I wasn't looking for someone's name on it or lot's of shell inlay. I wanted a really good sounding guitar. I found it. Taylor thinned their gloss finish process and now there's less finish between the vibrating wood and your ears. I really think it made a big difference. It's why old violins are never re-varnished. New varnish would kill a Stradivarius. I think where the debate around guitar tops opening up should be one of whether you are going to gain a bonus when it does open up. But as someone else mentioned, don't buy a guitar you think is going to open up and really sound good someday. That's nonsense. Buy a guitar that plays well and sounds good when you first pick it up. I had never even touched a Taylor and when I played the 818e, I was convinced that was what I wanted. The store owner said try the others. I did not. I have played many guitars. I've been playing since I was 4. This Taylor 818e would do. I've played friend's guitars and I've played some really nice and expensive ones. This factory guitar was "opened" up. It opened my mind and now Martin was not my dream guitar anymore. I personally wouldn't lose any sleep researching when your guitar is going to "open" up. I would just play and play it hard. If you don't love it already, sell it, and find the one you can't live without. I did.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

[size=2]Hi bg...

Based on my experiences with my Olson (EIR/Cedar) and that of others with similar guitars, this is not so.

You're right, Larry. What I should have written is something more along the lines of "Cedar tops are typically fairly open right from the beginning, when compared to Spruce tops".

[ocmcook]

if you liked the sound when you bought the guitar the opening up is just icing on the cake, as long as the opening up is not in the seam.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by brucefulton

Science isn't a limit or body of knowledge, it is a method for understanding.

I'm not giving a definition, I'm saying what it represents. It's not our goal for it to be this, but it inevitably is since we are imperfect beings.

[DESERTRAT1]

Originally Posted by ocmcook

if you liked the sound when you bought the guitar the opening up is just icing on the cake, as long as the opening up is not in the seam.

Like I said I really don't know. It's pretty mystical stuff. I can only go by the experience I've had over the years with my 72 Guild D40. When I bought it new it sounded just average. After about 10 years it seemed to loose volume and bass response. That lasted for many many years. Last year it got knocked off its stand and a section of the back popped loose. After repair it had miraculously "opened up" and now sings like a bird, But, like all of my acoustics it still sounds better on some days than others. Go figure. Acoustic guitars are such fickle little buggers it's hard to say.

[DesolationAngel]

I think the root of this debate lies in the phrase. "Opening up" sounds inherently good... like something is getting better. The only time you don't really want to hear about something opening up is a crack in the wall or on a flesh wound, the rest of the time 'opening up' sounds great.

Maybe if we asked, 'do guitars change over time?'. Then, I think, the inevitable answer is, 'well, yes, of course they do because they are made of wood and glue and organic materials which inherently change over time and as their environments change'.

Is it better? Maybe. Maybe not. "Opening up" seems to imply an upward curve of 'great'.

Originally Posted by zhunter

The easiest place to start is here at the AGF:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...hlight=opening

Once you get past the routine discussion of credentials and barely related minutiae that is.

BTW, it seems the evidence supporting either outcome is just about as good....or bad for classicals.

hunter

I fail to see any first-hand experiences shared there. Just basically he-said/she-said type stuff.

I have never heard anyone say that their old, well-cared for guitar did not sound good anymore. I'm not talking about a guitar that's been neglected or abused.

Again, apparently that 1888 Torres didn't get the memo that it shouldn't sound great anymore

[good_hillbilly]

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

With new guitars, I hear the solid sitka spruce tops are not opened-up yet,
and with age and playing, they open-up and sound better.
I was wondering what others say about this, in regards to the time it takes,
and if it can be accelerated, or does it just take much time and much playing?

Is this really true? I mean I've owned a bunch of nice new guitars -- nothing remotely as nice as the ones some of you guys traffic in but pretty decent -- and honest to gosh I have never heard one "open up".

Change string types? Sure, that changes the sound. But open up? I don't see how or why or what for.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

I have never heard anyone say that their old, well-cared for guitar did not sound good anymore. I'm not talking about a guitar that's been neglected or abused.

Not trying to argue with you or take any sides, as I believe that guitars generally open up for the better, but Andres Segovia is rather famous for saying that one of his favorite guitars lost it's tone one day. He proceeded to donate it to a museum, as he felt it was no longer a good enough instrument for him to continue playing. But that's just one example that I know of. I don't know of any others.

Also, might it be possible that the dry, woody, open and airy sound, that is evidenced in so many Gibsons and Martins from the '30s and '40s, might not be considered a desirable effect when it comes to classical guitars? I don't know. Just pontificating.

Originally Posted by billgennaro

Not trying to argue with you or take any sides, as I believe that guitars generally open up for the better, but Andres Segovia is rather famous for saying that one of his favorite guitars lost it's tone one day. He proceeded to donate it to a museum, as he felt it was no longer a good enough instrument for him to continue playing. But that's just one example that I know of. I don't know of any others.

Segovia was pretty eccentric, though. Of course, it was his guitar and his right to an opinion, but I just don't hear people saying their structurally sound guitars sound worse than when they bought them. Seems we should have a whole slew of testimonies to that.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Segovia was pretty eccentric, though. Of course, it was his guitar and his right to an opinion, but I just don't hear people saying their structurally sound guitars sound worse than when they bought them. Seems we should have a whole slew of testimonies to that.

Oh, I agree with you. I was merely pointing out one great musician who made the claim. James Taylor once said that "guitars wear out" but I think he was referring to the fact that they get beat to hell from touring like he does. A lot of people took his statement to mean that they lose their tone. Anyway, I think that opening up entails more depth to the tone, and a more open and airy sound (almost like there is more space in between the notes). One would think that these attributes would be welcomed as an improvement.