John Prine lyric ,, change

[jasperguitar]

The John Prine song "That's the way the world goes round" has the lyric
"Starts drinking heavy, gets a big rednose
Beats his old lady with a rubber hose
Then he takes her out to dinner, buys her new clothes"

I love John Prine songs, and miss him .. He was so great ..
but this lyric is horrible .. beating a woman with a rubber hose?

So, what is the preferred substitution ??

[billyg]

I'm sorry if this response is inappropriate. It's late. I can't sleep and I am utilizing some bourbon.
While I understand your issue with the lyric, I can't personally imagine coming up with a substitute. Within the context of the song, of course, it fits. It is just one example of "the way that the world goes round." The writer isn't supportive or condemning, rather, I think he is trying to express the breadth of experiences out there, how there are so many vignettes playing out that many of us simply do not participate in. But they are the way that the world goes round.
I confess, I am a mighty John Prine fan, and I just wouldn't dream of touching his lyric. I would personally leave it in the pile of songs I sing to myself and not to others, if I thought I needed to substitute a lyric.
That's just me.

[Bikewer]

Agree with Billy.... That’s a “slice of life” tune, and occasionally life is uncomfortable.
I worked for years in my police career in an area where “spousal abuse” was a depressingly common phenomena......

[Neal Pert]

All kinds of bad things happen in songs. In fact, that's one of the absolute best places for bad things to happen, I think. A song becomes a problem if the guy's endorsing the bad behavior, or if you are.

Now, I will admit that when my kids were little I used to sing "Let's roll/ DOWN THE HILL" really loudly when we were listening to Tom Petty's "You Don't Know How it Feels," but that's a different kind of editing entirely.

[PeterM]

I swear I heard Miranda Lambert sing "pantyhose"

Was not really paying close attention...

[raysachs]

Since he’s not in any way endorsing beating his old lady with a rubber hose, I don’t have a problem singing it. I DO have problems singing a couple of Stones songs I’ve loved for decades. First, Stray Cat Blues, which celebrates sex with underage girls, and, second, Under my Thumb, which is just misogynistic from start to finish. Still love the progression, rhythm, melody, but can’t bring myself to sing em.

But Prine was using “beats his old lady with a rubber hose” as an over the top way of saying that people are complicated. Very good and very bad can, and often DO, coexist within the same people...

-Ray

[FrankHudson]

Yup, a common problem with those of us who perform songs with lyrics we didn't write. I'm comfortable with each singer deciding for themselves. Some in a putative audience will agree, some will disagree, many won't notice.

Some upthread are pointing out an valid way to look at many examples that might come to mind: that the characters that one portrays in lyrics and singers perform in songs are not always heroes or exemplars of wisdom, ethics, or good behavior. Of course it's more complicated than just, "so just sing anything then" as we choose what to sing from a large number of possibilities.

Sometimes it's hard to be certain what a lyric writer's intent was in writing about some evil act, and given a occupational tendency to intoxication and troubled minds, those authors may not know themselves.

In Prine's case a lot of his songs are satirical. He presents ways humans react to things and finds it absurd. Sometimes that absurdity is "funny ha ha" and sometimes it "how can we do this!?"

I'm not sure if the two Stones lyrics Ray mentions are Jagger lyrics (I think they are, or largely are, but what do I know) but a fair number of Stones songs use what I'd call (warning: had a youthful interest in drama/playwriting, so I'm going to sound hi-falutin') Brechtian* framing. In this mode the characters are not models to be emulated, they are examples of problems. So yes, the character in "Stray Cat Blues" is a leering rapist. The character in "Under My Thumb" is a dominating partner and I wouldn't want to be be anywhere neither either of them and I'm not even a woman. I understand Ray not wanting to sing those lyrics. Plenty of other choices.

.

*Bertolt Brecht. German playwright and lyric writer. Oh, and even if you enjoy occasional intoxication, it's not likely to go well if you must always must find the next whisky bar. Oh don't ask why. Oh don't ask why--no wait a minute, examine the short life of Jim Morrison, there could be a clue there.

[Mr. Paul]

I've no problem changing a lyric.

However, for me this particular example shows John Prine's mastery of the art. He wants to present a character that beats his wife, then buys her dinner and roses. There is no mystery or creativity to "he beats his wife" ... no doubt about how that picture looks. When he adds "with a rubber hose" he adds a lightness that effectively takes the edge off.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by PeterM

I swear I heard Miranda Lambert sing "pantyhose"

Was not really paying close attention...

Listened again. She switched genders...

"Beats her old man with her pantyhose"

That really isn't any better form the PC point of view of course.

[NormanKliman]

If you have to change it, how about "...and you know it shows" or "...you know how it goes"?

[frankmcr]

The song is not the singer.

[loco gringo]

"Beats her old man with her panty hose"? There is your bad lyric. Are they filled with lead shot?


If you are uncomfortable with Prine's lyric, maybe try one of his more lighthearted songs? Let's Talk Dirty In Hawaiian, maybe?

[Denny B]

Johnny Cash sang "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die..."

But you know, Johnny really didn't do that...he wasn't endorsing it, and he wasn't telling any else to do it...

It's just a lyric in a very well written, now classic song...

If I don't like the core issues of a song, I'll find another song to sing, but I won't water it down and sand off all the rough edges...

There's a lot of great songs that weren't meant to be "G" rated and suitable for all audiences...

Part of John Prine's genius was to hold up a mirror reflecting the human condition and show us as we are...sometimes beautiful, sometimes not but always human, and I'm not talented enough to think that I could rewrite his song lyrics for any reason...

[emtsteve]

Originally Posted by Denny B

Johnny Cash sang "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die..."

But you know, Johnny really didn't do that...he wasn't endorsing it, and he wasn't telling any else to do it...

It's just a lyric in a very well written, now classic song...

If I don't like the core issues of a song, I'll find another song to sing, but I won't water it down and sand off all the rough edges...

There's a lot of great songs that weren't meant to be "G" rated and suitable for all audiences...

Part of John Prine's genius was to hold up a mirror reflecting the human condition and show us as we are...sometimes beautiful, sometimes not but always human, and I'm not talented enough to think that I could rewrite his song lyrics for any reason...

Speaking of Johnny Cash and John Prine... Cash changed the line in the chorus of Sam Stone - "Jesus Christ died for nothin' I suppose". One of the best lines in a song ever and it just ruined it.

I understand if you don't like a line in a song, but I sure wouldn't change a word that John Prine wrote.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Denny B

Johnny Cash sang "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die..."

But you know, Johnny really didn't do that...he wasn't endorsing it, and he wasn't telling any else to do it...

It's just a lyric in a very well written, now classic song...

.

Part of John Prine's genius was to hold up a mirror reflecting the human condition and show us as we are...sometimes beautiful, sometimes not but always human, and I'm not talented enough to think that I could rewrite his song lyrics for any reason...

Very good Johnny Cash analogy. I also have no problem with Prine's lyric . it's observational not promotional ....

I have only ever avoided one set of lyrics which is now considered racial slur term

In the Rolf Harris song "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport" the verse "Let me Abo's go loose". basically just don't sing that verse