Tell me again about the virtues of cryptocurrency...

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by JonWint

Another virtue of crypto is for international monetary transfers. It reduces the transfer time from 2 days to 10 seconds.

"The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) bureau of the U.S. Department of the Treasury said that banks and federal savings associations can use stable-coins and independent node verification networks (INVNs), otherwise known as blockchain networks, to perform payment activities and perform permissible bank functions."

So rapid international transfers is the primary (or only?) virtue?

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

So rapid international transfers is the primary (or only?) virtue?

OP was asking about crypto virtues. I offered two: portability without relying on an institution account, and rapid transfer while maintaining a currency pegged value.

Stablecoins could make sense for retail payments for unbanked or underbanked individuals around the world.

I'm not a crypto salesman. I do own a small amount (which I could afford to lose) of Ether that has fluctuated from between 50% and 550% gain over 4 years. A close friend bought Ether during crowdfunding and has turned $2000 into over $2 million over 5 years. That's 2 mil of cashed out USD. Multimillionaire at 30 years old.

Better odds than the Power Ball.

BTW: The Feds are considering their own coin. "The Biden administration is also expected to weigh in on the prospect of the Fed issuing a central bank digital currency (CBDC)." If they did, it would allow them to track your funds and make tax collection easier.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

So rapid international transfers is the primary (or only?) virtue?

Bypassing the cumbersome, slow and expensive financial services animals would be virtues to me but of course require some regulation we don't have yet.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Bypassing the cumbersome, slow and expensive financial services animals would be virtues to me but of course require some regulation we don't have yet.

I agree. But most people aren’t interested in such advantages.


And for folks who have touted crypto as an investment, I will reiterate that there are no metrics that can provide ANY visibility about future pricing. No fundamentals, no cash flow, no underlying assets. Nothing but excitement about a new technology that may provide a few advantages to people moving cash (usually large amounts) and who are comfortable with the the paucity of regulations and guarantees. But as an investment/speculation…the time to make money may have passed.

To elaborate: “ Crypto reached its peak of public prominence last year, when Matt Damon’s “Fortune favors the brave” commercial — sponsored by the Singapore-based exchange Crypto.com — first aired. At the time Bitcoin, the most famous cryptocurrency, was selling for more than $60,000.

Bitcoin is now trading below $17,000. So people who bought after watching the Damon ad have lost more than 70 percent of their investment. In fact, since most people who bought Bitcoin did so when its price was high, most investors in the currency — around three-quarters of them, according to a new analysis by the Bank for International Settlements — have lost money so far.” - from a recent Jack Krugman column in The NY Times.

[Andyrondack]

When it was newly created Bitcoin was touted as having the virtue of not being a fiat currency which printed money as economies grew. It's value was supposed to be inflation proof on account of a limited number ever having been created, you had to 'mine' the coins to make it seem more like gold.
Then when it became apparent that the price was on an upward trajectory and would be around for a while the financial engineers started creating all sorts of novel crypto currencies so what does that do to the value of Bitcoin?

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

So people who bought after watching the Damon ad have lost more than 70 percent of their investment.

There's one answer.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by imwjl

The conventional banking system creates money out of thin air too so it is possible I don't understand what you mean here.

There is a huge difference. The banking systems have the backing of governments which means that there is regulation to sustain balance and faith/trust in the system.

Without that you have nothing. Otherwise, I can make up some type of coin and sell it to people. All I need is a system and promotion.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by imwjl View Post
The conventional banking system creates money out of thin air too so it is possible I don't understand what you mean here.

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

There is a huge difference. The banking systems have the backing of governments which means that there is regulation to sustain balance and faith/trust in the system.

Without that you have nothing. Otherwise, I can make up some type of coin and sell it to people. All I need is a system and promotion.

Good point I never thought of it that way before.
A simplified scenario...
Jane has no money but is smart . John has $10 .
Jane creates a new cryptocurrency and uses a blockchain platform to make it tradeable.
John buys $10 worth at the spot price.
Now Jane has $10 in cash and John has crypto currency he can use to buy $10 worth of goods(keeping it simple here and assuming the market price remains stable and this new currency is accepted in the wider economy)

Has wealth been created ?
Edit... realised shortly after posting that as the creator Jane is not supposed to own any of the currency, instead John has to do some pseudo work of NO VALUE TO ANYONE and "mine" a unit of the new crypto currency so the question then gets shifted along, when he sells it to someone else for $10 on the block chain has wealth been created?

[imwjl]

How lending works vs a pure gamble seems missed here in posts here and same for their being a need and a start towards regulated cryptocurrency.

It may be we have members here who are or have made a living in the conventional financial services that have become such a monster, mess and burden so I can understand resistance there kind of like someone with interests in a coal mine, dock or rail line could not like or understand a state without a coal mine or oil well like renewables.

We don't have a cryptocurrency infrastructure and regulation likely needed yet but that does not mean a lack of redeeming values or reason.

[Murphy Slaw]

The Government isn't going to relinquish the ability to create fiat money to Jane.

[buddyhu]

An interesting opinion piece by economist Paul Krugman in the NY Times today, entitled “ Blockchains, What Are They Good For?”

His conclusion: they may not have much to offer, and that the excitement about them may have been rooted exclusively in emotional factors, such as mistrust of banks, the fear of missing out on a financial windfall, the mystique that many technological innovations tend to have, etc. He notes that many institutions who had explored blockchains are “quietly” abandoning their ventures.

He also notes that the use of servers to “mine” and store blockchains are not friendly to the environment.

While the article may not change any minds, it certainly clarifies the bases for skepticism.

[RP]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

There is a huge difference. The banking systems have the backing of governments which means that there is regulation to sustain balance and faith/trust in the system.

Without that you have nothing. Otherwise, I can make up some type of coin and sell it to people. All I need is a system and promotion.

As we compare regulated US dollars and cryptocurrency, one should also consider that the currency we use in the US dates back to The Coinage Act of 1792, almost as long as we've been a country. So we as a country have 230 years of precedent using some form of US currency...

The Coinage Act of 1792 (also known as the Mint Act; officially: An act establishing a mint, and regulating the Coins of the United States), passed by the United States Congress on April 2, 1792, created the United States dollar as the country's standard unit of money, established the United States Mint, and regulated the coinage of the United States.

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by RP

passed by the United States Congress on April 2, 1792, created the United States dollar as the country's standard unit of money, established the United States Mint, and regulated the coinage of the United States.[/I]

Ah yes, they were the good old days. The $ was backed by gold. That lasted until the late 1920s when the world started dropping the gold (and/or silver) standard. Completely ended in the US in 1971.

The gold standard slowed the printing of more dollars by governments, so it had to go. Currency is now backed by "faith". Keep the faith.........