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  #61  
Old 03-11-2003, 12:45 PM
ky224 ky224 is offline
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For a guy who's only 24...I'd say Mayer is quite accomplished.

Dave Matthews? He nearly singlehandedly brought the acoustic guitar back from the slump in the 90's.

Both guys deserve much credit for what they do. (Although I hear that John Mayer has quite an ego)

Which brings me to another point: Why do artists shun fans like that? It doesn't make any sense. Without fans...they wouldn't be anywhere. Take for instance, Linkin Park. They do NOT leave the venue until they've signed every autograph to be signed. And they have DEVOTED fans. DMB, when they run into fans...they talk with them, take pictures, and sign autographs. I have yet to hear a story about them dissing fans. And then I hear about bands like Mettalica who attack their fans. Remember the demise of Napster? It doesn't make sense. People wanted their music...but because they weren't paying...Mettalica attacked em. I don't get it. There doesn't seem to be much appreciation for fans anymore. Someone (here I think) once posted a story about John Mayer making fans wait 3 hours in the rain to sign autographs...and then flaking on them. That is seriously messed up. I've heard countless stories like that about Mayer.
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  #62  
Old 03-11-2003, 09:41 PM
kcollins kcollins is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by land_b

I really don't see how Dave Mathews is seen as an influental guitarist either. Who did he influence that is now popular? Frankly I like his music, but the guitar playing is not exactly amazing. I don't think his playing ever broke new ground or even pushed the limits of his own ability.

DM has popularized a style of rhythym guitar playing that could be called rhythym-lead. His percussive strumming style, his mutes of any and all strings, and the way he drives the music from the back of the bus, so to speak, are all pretty novel. I won't say his method is revolutionary, but it is a style that is now all the rage and he has made it popular.

Now, I'm not particularly a Dave fan, but if he has had anything to do with the raising the general intelligence level of new music and musicians (and I think he has), then I say we nominate him for something important.
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  #63  
Old 03-11-2003, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpmusic
I recently saw about 15-20 minutes of the Mayer DVD, and I was unimpressed. Mayer jumps around and sweats up one heck of a storm, but I found his songs to be forgettable stream-of-consciousness riffs, and his singing and guitar playing about 90% style and 10% substance.

If you want energy and talent, there are dozens of names to choose from just among flatpickers, like Doyle Dykes, Dan Crary, Beppe Gambetta, etc. Go to http://www.thunderation.com/artists/Gambetta&Crary/ and check out the sound sample for "Mozart in Hell," and you'll see what I mean.

Among singer-songriters, my favorite still is Steve Goodman, who could tear up the joint in folk, rock, country, blues and jazz, all within a single set. There's also Martin Simpson, Leo Kottke (not always a singer, but what the heck), Pat Donohue, David Wilcox, Patty Larkin, Bruce Cockburn, Paul Simon (often overlooked as a guitarist), Rory Block, Ricky Skaggs, and many others who aren't coming to mind right now. The list is very long.
Chris- this is all well and good, and certainly I dont feel that JM or DM holds a candle to many of the above listed names, but I think its important to give a nod to musicians like DM and JM for bringing, as kcollins has said, a higher "general intelligence level" to the new musicians.

Personally, I give them credit for making it big in DMs case, or relatively big in JMs case, and popularizing songs that arent 4 chord progressions...

Given the selection of what is out there among music that would be considered "popular" today (and maybe even "mainstream", absent of the negative connotation always associated with the term), I think that JM and DM are EXCELLENT representatives of how good popular music can be...

(especially when compared with some of the unfortunate music of the early 90s...)

While they may not be the literal best of whats around (har har har), they're definitely among the best of what's popular and/or readily visible to people that arent really concerned with searching for great music. As a 22 year old, I had to search to find the music of Dykes, Kottke, Juber, etc...but JM and DM are visible enough that their music found me...
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  #64  
Old 03-12-2003, 08:05 AM
Cat Daddy Cat Daddy is offline
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Quote:
For a guy who's only 24...I'd say Mayer is quite accomplished.

Dave Matthews? He nearly singlehandedly brought the acoustic guitar back from the slump in the 90's.

Both guys deserve much credit for what they do. (Although I hear that John Mayer has quite an ego)

Which brings me to another point: Why do artists shun fans like that? It doesn't make any sense. Without fans...they wouldn't be anywhere. Take for instance, Linkin Park. They do NOT leave the venue until they've signed every autograph to be signed. And they have DEVOTED fans. DMB, when they run into fans...they talk with them, take pictures, and sign autographs. I have yet to hear a story about them dissing fans. And then I hear about bands like Mettalica who attack their fans. Remember the demise of Napster? It doesn't make sense. People wanted their music...but because they weren't paying...Mettalica attacked em. I don't get it. There doesn't seem to be much appreciation for fans anymore. Someone (here I think) once posted a story about John Mayer making fans wait 3 hours in the rain to sign autographs...and then flaking on them. That is seriously messed up. I've heard countless stories like that about Mayer.
This sounds like an article out of Teen Bop magazine. You heard that John has quite an ego, eh? How can you believe that? Who told you, and who did they hear it from? That could be one person that didn't like the fact that he signed 300 autographs and they were #301. You've heard countless stories I'm sure. I heard that Michael Jackson was an alien, Elvis isn't dead, and that Bill Gates wants to give me thousands of dollars for sending some emails. Do you believe those stories as well? I have spoken with John several times and never got the impression that he had a big ego. In fact, I got the exact opposite impression. I have heard John Mayer say that he wants fans sharing his music, but he would like it done face to face, not over the internet. As far as Metallica goes, they did not attrack their fans. Metallica had every right to get upset when people were stealing their music.
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  #65  
Old 03-12-2003, 01:28 PM
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I also strongly disagree about JM having a big ego. I know someone who is a singer/songwriter and she has talked to him several times.

I think that in general he is actually pretty shy. That might be strange for a performer, but I think that it is true. Did you see his speech at the grammy's? He said something to the effect that he felt like a teanager getting up there, That he was completely overwhelmed and he had trouble calming himself down to try to remember all the people he wanted to thank.

Not Cocky at all. There are tons of pop stars that have huge egos, but he doesn't make that list. I think people project negative connotations on other people because they don't like them.
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  #66  
Old 03-12-2003, 02:49 PM
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Perhaps him having a large ego is a rumor, but at least I believe that whoever related the story about the autographs and the rain...and thats just simply not cool...

It might not be because of an ego issue, but whatever it was for, it wasnt cool.

I still dig his tunes though...

3x5 is unbelievable...
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  #67  
Old 03-12-2003, 07:49 PM
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cpmusic cpmusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rsimper
I think its important to give a nod to musicians like DM and JM for bringing, as kcollins has said, a higher "general intelligence level" to the new musicians.

Personally, I give them credit for making it big in DMs case, or relatively big in JMs case, and popularizing songs that arent 4 chord progressions...
Well, yes and no. I have to admit I'm not very familiar with either (I keep threatening to catch up with Matthews) but most of what I've heard from Mayer, at least, was more like two-chord progressions. I think it's great that singer-songwriters are getting more attention these days, but if Mayer is the poster boy, I'll keep looking elsewhere.

Quote:
While they may not be the literal best of whats around (har har har), they're definitely among the best of what's popular and/or readily visible to people that arent really concerned with searching for great music. As a 22 year old, I had to search to find the music of Dykes, Kottke, Juber, etc...but JM and DM are visible enough that their music found me...
[/QUOTE]

Good point, but to be fair, folks like Kottke, Dykes and Juber have always flown under the "pop" radar. This is why I pretty much abandoned the pop charts as a music source over 20 years ago. Occasionally something good breaks through, but mostly it's about style and fads.

Anyway, I'm not saying that people shouldn't listen to Mayer. It's all about taste, and hey, if he draws a crowd away from the boyband-Britney garbage, so much the better. But for my money, he needs a lot more meat on his musical bones.
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  #68  
Old 03-13-2003, 06:21 AM
chtaylo2 chtaylo2 is offline
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cpmusic,

How much John Mayer have you listened to? I have to ask because if you think he's "two-chord progressions" you're way off. Here is a link to a tabsite with accurate John Mayer tabs. Maybe you'd like to take a look at the songs. How many chords are in "St. Patrick's Day"?

John Mayer Tabs

-Chris
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  #69  
Old 03-13-2003, 07:17 AM
Cat Daddy Cat Daddy is offline
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Quote:
but most of what I've heard from Mayer, at least, was more like two-chord progressions.


I wish he was a two chord guy. Then my hands wouldn't cramp, and my fingers trip over each other.
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  #70  
Old 03-13-2003, 10:28 AM
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Chris, I watched about 15-20 minutes of his DVD in a store last weekend. I don't know which songs that included because I couldn't understand much of his lyrics and there was no display from which to get the track numbers, but what I heard bored the snot out of me, and the song during which I walked away had just two chords. If I'm wrong about the complexity of his chord structures overall, then I apologize, but I didn't hear anything that struck me as worth getting to know better. Of course, others' mileage may vary.
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Old 03-13-2003, 11:58 AM
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I really don't want to start a fight here cpmusic, but you sound like my grandpa...set in your ways. You listened to a few minutes of music and then completely abandoned all hope that there was anything good produced by Mayer. Granted, he is noooo Doyle, or Kottke, or Juber, but he certainly plays better than anyone else in the mainstream pop market today.

Check that website that Chris gave you.... Try some of his material. Better yet, acquire the solo acoustic version of Neon and figure out how the heck he plays Wooten style bass on top of a nice jazz progression. If you could, tab it the right way and post it because I would really like to learn it.

I know this probably sounded like I am a complete jerk, and I am sorry. I am a little tire of people comparing John Mayer to Doyle Dykes and the other big name pickers out there. He isn't nearly at their level of playing, but that doesn't make him a two chord player.

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  #72  
Old 03-13-2003, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpmusic
Chris, I watched about 15-20 minutes of his DVD in a store last weekend. I don't know which songs that included because I couldn't understand much of his lyrics and there was no display from which to get the track numbers, but what I heard bored the snot out of me, and the song during which I walked away had just two chords. If I'm wrong about the complexity of his chord structures overall, then I apologize, but I didn't hear anything that struck me as worth getting to know better. Of course, others' mileage may vary.
you must have seen one of his newer bare bones songs like.... "something's missing" or "covered in rain" - the lead work is amazing on those though... check out some of his more standard songs... 3x5, back to you, 83... etc
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  #73  
Old 03-13-2003, 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by cpmusic
[B]but most of what I've heard from Mayer, at least, was more like two-chord progressions.
huh?

i'm not a big fan of his music, and i'm even less of a fan of the image he and the record industry have created for himself, but he is an outstanding guitarist. two chord progressions? sorry but i have to ask....are you sure it's really john mayer that you listened to?
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  #74  
Old 03-13-2003, 12:23 PM
chtaylo2 chtaylo2 is offline
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Covered In Rain has basically 2 chords. That's the only song that has that few chords. And he rips out big solos with that song. It's basically a song to jam on. Even Something's Missing has many more chords than that, and it's also played in an open tuning. It doesn't bother me that some people may not like John Mayer, everyone has their own taste in music. What I take exception with is Mayer's music being described as 2 chords. So many songs use basic open position chords, and I-IV-V but Mayer definitely does not do that. That's one of the reasons I enjoy playing his stuff on guitar so much. I am easily bored with basic guitar songs. I enjoy playing John Mayer's stuff on guitar because he doesn't use standard open chords on alot of his songs and he uses different chord voicings and progressions that are not used in popular music.

-Chris
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  #75  
Old 03-13-2003, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ME@VT
I really don't want to start a fight here cpmusic, but you sound like my grandpa...set in your ways. You listened to a few minutes of music and then completely abandoned all hope that there was anything good produced by Mayer.
I usually stay away from personal statements on these threads, but you're assuming a great deal from facts not in evidence. First, the fact that I don't like Mayer doesn't mean I'm set in my ways, it just means that I don't like Mayer, and I don't much care for a personality assumption because your taste differs. You also imply that Mayer is a complete original, and I would argue that he's not.

Second, I haven't abandoned all hope of finding good music from Mayer, but almost all the musicians I like have grabbed and held my attention quickly, sometimes within a few bars. Mayer did not, and that gives me little incentive to look further, given the number of other musicians tugging at my ears and bank account. This is not an indictment of Mayer's fans, just an expression of my opinion.

As to whether Mayer is a talented guitarist, I'll let that go and withdraw the "two chord" remark. However, it doesn't change my opinion about Mayer's music.
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Last edited by cpmusic; 03-14-2003 at 12:09 AM.
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