Starter Recording Rig - Where Begin

[newpipa]

I would like to record my acoustic steel string (Eastman E20 OMCE) and a couple classical guitars. Just solo; no singing.

I am a total rookie at acoustic recording, and would greatly appreciate guidance on a starter setup. I am looking for “decent” home studio quality, but not expecting miracles. If possible an initial rig that I could build upon as my needs, experience grow would be good.

My fairly limited recording experience to date is with an archtop electric guitar (Sadowsky SS-15). I record in 2 ways: 1) directly into GarageBand using a Presonus AudioBox iTwo external sound interface, or 2) I mic my Fender Blues Jr amp with a Shure SM57 dynamic mic (also connected to the external interface).

So, equipment I already have:
1) an external interface that can handle 2 mics
2) a Shure SM57 mic
3) a Presonus M7 condenser mic (came in a bundle with the Presonus AudioBox iTwo)
4) Presonus headphones which came in same bundle.

Should I start with the mics I have? Or are they really not what you want for recording acoustic guitar? From my initial reading, it appears that a dynamic mic is perhaps not what you want for acoustic guitar.

It’s pretty clear from the reading that you need 2 mics, and that one experiments with these various positions that I barely understand (XY, Mid-Side...). Thus, I assume I need 2 mic stands, so that I can position the mics.

So, what do suggest?
1) Mics - Use the Presonus M7, and buy a second condenser mic? Or just buy two new condenser mics? If so, what kind?
2) Mic stands - Do I need 2 for flexibility in positioning, or do I want one of these holders of I have seen that holds a pair (which might mean you are locked into a specific mic positioning)?

(Fewer mic stands to kick over might be nice, but two may be a necessity. Don’t know.)

Any guidance on a good starter rig greatly appreciated. And any good reference reading would be appreciated as well.

Thanks so much.

[Shepsdad]

In my case, I had a lot of experience with the old tascam cassette multi trackers, and later, digital stand alone recorders, so I chose a Zoom R16 multi track machine over using an interface and going into a DAW. There’s still a learning curve, but for me, it was way less than learning software on a pc. As far as mics, I had several to begin with, including an MXL large diaphragm that I used a lot for vocals and even mic’ing amps and acoustics. Recently I’ve bought a few ISK audio condenser mics, and pretty much only use those for acoustics anymore.

I think a dynamic and a condenser is plenty if you are just recording an acoustic. I’ve done recordings in the past with a condenser up close to the guitar and a dynamic positioned farther away.

[Doug Young]

I'd just get started with what you have. 2 mic stands would definitely be useful. With 2 unmatched mics, you'll probably want to record the guitar using a spaced pair setup - aim one at the neck/body joint, the other below the bridge. Other mic setups, like XY, etc, are better with 2 of the same mic type, and others you mention (like Mid-Side) require specialized mics. But what you have will get you started, and you'll learn more about what else you want to try.

[anton]

To record solo instrumental guitar I think two condenser mics would probably give you the best detail and accuracy. You could start by playing with the two mics you have while you decide which ones to buy next. Since you already have an interface that can handle two mics that is probably not the most immediate need.

With your two different mics you could try a space pair arrangement, you would need two mic stands for the most flexibility.

A stereo bar that holds a pair of mics is nice for XY or ORTF arrangements.

What is your budget for an additional pair of mics? Also if you want to post some spaced pair recording samples folks here could better advise you in things. Could be your current pair of mics would sound fine.

[newpipa]

Thanks for the feedback. I was inclined to start with the mics I have, and start learning. But it was good to confirm that using the mics I have was not a ridiculous starting point.

I will pick up a pair of stands. Then, try the “spaced” mics approach: one pointing at the 12th fret area; the other at the bridge area.

A few details on this approach:
1) Is there a preference for which mic (dynamic vs condenser) is where? My inclination would be to start with condenser at the neck.
2) Distance from guitar? Start around 6” away?
3) Distance between mics? Don’t know if it applies, but was told of some “rule of thumb” about the spread between mics being 3x the distance of mics from guitar. So, if mics are 6” from guitar, they should be 18” from each other.

Thanks again for all your insights. Once I make some headway, can try a SoundCloud upload of my first baby steps.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by newpipa

Thanks for the feedback. I was inclined to start with the mics I have, and start learning. But it was good to confirm that using the mics I have was not a ridiculous starting point.

I will pick up a pair of stands. Then, try the “spaced” mics approach: one pointing at the 12th fret area; the other at the bridge area.

A few details on this approach:
1) Is there a preference for which mic (dynamic vs condenser) is where? My inclination would be to start with condenser at the neck.
2) Distance from guitar? Start around 6” away?
3) Distance between mics? Don’t know if it applies, but was told of some “rule of thumb” about the spread between mics being 3x the distance of mics from guitar. So, if mics are 6” from guitar, they should be 18” from each other.

Thanks again for all your insights. Once I make some headway, can try a SoundCloud upload of my first baby steps.

As others have said start with the mics you have (But with two different mics) I would record to two separate mono tracks (eventually you will probably want to EQ and or Compress them separately)
1) I would try it both ways M7 neck and 57 just below bridge, and vise versa
(see which you like)
2) distance "Experiment" in general the closer to source the less room

3). that 3 x between mics relative to distance to source (thing) is more applicable to recording a multi instrument source, like orchestra or choir, not really applicable to solo guitar

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by newpipa

2) Distance from guitar? Start around 6” away?
3) Distance between mics?

I'd start about a foot away, 15-20 inches apart. It's a balancing act. The further away you are, the more room you will pick up, which is probably a bad thing if you don't have a acoustically good room (a whole other area to learn about). The closer you are, the more proximity effect kicks in and you get too much bass. Further apart you get a wider sound, possibly thinner, closer you get narrower, but may pickup more soundhole (boom). Comes down to what you want, your guitar, your room, your mics, how you play, your taste, etc, so just experiment. What works for you may be different than for others, you just never know, as there are lots of variables.

You might find this video helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b6E20BwSdU

[DukeX]

I agree start with what you have and start looking at some SDCs (or LDCs if you prefer). Even the inexpensive ones around $100 each are quite good.

It's easy to put a couple of mics up using the mic configurations mentioned above and move the pair nearer/closer (6", 12", 18", 24", etc.) with some headphones on to see how it sounds.

[newpipa]

Lots of guidance for my first experiments.

One thing I don’t expect to undertake is building my own insulation panels and lining my studio / extra bedroom with them.

Thanks

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by newpipa

L
One thing I don’t expect to undertake is building my own insulation panels and lining my studio / extra bedroom with them.

Thanks

I doubt anyone sets out wanting to do that, and I wouldn't let it stop you. Dig in and learn. If you're lucky, your room will sound ok. For solo guitar, with close micing, and ordinary room furnishings, you can sometimes get a good sound. That video I suggested was recorded in an untreated spare bedroom.

If you decide you're serious, at some point, you may start asking why your recordings don't sound like a good studio, and want to look into it. But there's a lot to learn before that becomes the most pressing thing. Others may argue differently, but like having better mics, I think you can get started with what you have and see where it goes.

[newpipa]

Doug - You (and others) have been so very helpful. The other night I had bumped into a video showing a procedure for building acoustic baffles. I did have to laugh... Like we say with guitars, “I only need just one more.”

We’ll check my studio for baffles in a few years.

Thanks again.

[Dave Hicks]

Originally Posted by newpipa

Doug - You (and others) have been so very helpful. The other night I had bumped into a video showing a procedure for building acoustic baffles. I did have to laugh... Like we say with guitars, “I only need just one more.”

We’ll check my studio for baffles in a few years.

Thanks again.

Unfortunately, I live on a fairly busy street, so there's lots of outside noise. Maybe I should get some soundproofing before they start the repaving project.


With two mics you may need to change the phasing on one or the other mic channel. Often, some frequencies cancel out and you wind up with a guitar track that sounds odd because some frequencies are missing. Your recording software will probably let you do this.

D.H.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Dave Hicks

Unfortunately, I live on a fairly busy street, so there's lots of outside noise. Maybe I should get some soundproofing before they start the repaving project.

Soundproofing to keep noise out (or in) is different from acoustic treatment (fixing echos and EQ issues in a room). Soundproofing is quite hard, and mostly impractical in a home environment. Doing it right means things like double-wall construction, floating floors and so on. For home recording, an easier solution is to do what pro studios have a harder time with - record when things are quiet, late at night, for example. Or, since the clock isn't running, just do however many takes is required to get one without a car going by or whatever.

With two mics you may need to change the phasing on one or the other mic channel. Often, some frequencies cancel out and you wind up with a guitar track that sounds odd because some frequencies are missing. Your recording software will probably let you do this.

D.H.

I think you're talking about polarity? With 2 different mics, it's worth checking. Mics and cables can be mis-wired, tho it's rare. Phase is a different thing, and is best dealt with thru proper mic placement. I would not adjust the phase between mics when recording in stereo. For spaced pairs, phase differences are an inherent part of the sound. If you don't like that sound, use a phase-coherent mic placement, like XY, MS, etc.

[Dave Hicks]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Soundproofing to keep noise out (or in) is different from acoustic treatment (fixing echos and EQ issues in a room). Soundproofing is quite hard, and mostly impractical in a home environment. Doing it right means things like double-wall construction, floating floors and so on. For home recording, an easier solution is to do what pro studios have a harder time with - record when things are quiet, late at night, for example. Or, since the clock isn't running, just do however many takes is required to get one without a car going by or whatever.



I think you're talking about polarity? With 2 different mics, it's worth checking. Mics and cables can be mis-wired, tho it's rare. Phase is a different thing, and is best dealt with thru proper mic placement. I would not adjust the phase between mics when recording in stereo. For spaced pairs, phase differences are an inherent part of the sound. If you don't like that sound, use a phase-coherent mic placement, like XY, MS, etc.

I wasn't serious about sound-proofing - the house is old, wooden and only about 20 ft from the street. Constructing a concrete bunker isn't really feasible.

Yes, polarity.

D.H.

[Chipotle]

This is a great video, chock full of acoustic recording tips. The mic setups are 2-microphone spaced pairs. And, in fact, the second mic setup they use an SM57 on the bridge side, along with a large-diaphragm condenser. Good combo if you want a little bluesier, grittier sound.