So, exactly how tough are these carbon fiber guitars?

backdrifter · #1 01-30-2010, 05:56 PM

I've been trying to make a decision on a travel guitar for the last few weeks, and I keep leaning towards a carbon fiber guitar. The ones I'm looking at are the Blackbird Rider, the Emerald X5, and the CA Cargo. I know they are all advertised as small enough to fit in overhead bins, but when you look at their lengths (I believe the X5 is the shortest at 33.5"), they would have trouble passing on the regional jets that I tend to fly on very frequently.

So, if I'm going to end up having to frequently gate check the guitar anyway, I figure why not just get a larger guitar and check it all the time. After looking at lots of videos, I really dig the way the CA OX sounds (as much as I can tell from videos). I'm familiar with carbon fiber in other products, and I know it is extremely strong. But how strong is it? Would you feel comfortable checking a medium to full size carbon fiber guitar in a padded gig bag with the airlines on a regular basis? I'm obviously not as much concerned with temperature and pressure as I am with bumps and bruises.

Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

Celticophilia · #2 01-30-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Would you feel comfortable checking a medium to full size carbon fiber guitar in a padded gig bag with the airlines on a regular basis? I'm obviously not as much concerned with temperature and pressure as I am with bumps and bruises.Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

I would not recommend a padded gig bag for any instrument getting checked on an airline. If it is not a case that you would feel comfortable standing on with the guitar inside, you may want to consider a hard shell case with a lock. Carbon fiber guitars are strong, but not strong enough to withstand abusive baggage handling without being adequately protected.

Mr. Ed · #3 01-30-2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celticophilia

I would not recommend a padded gig bag for any instrument getting checked on an airline. If it is not a case that you would feel comfortable standing on with the guitar inside, you may want to consider a hard shell case with a lock. Carbon fiber guitars are strong, but not strong enough to withstand abusive baggage handling without being adequately protected.

I agree. My Rainsong takes temperature and humidity changes with ease. But, I would be concerned about a careless person abusing it. Definitely a hard case for flying.

gitnoob · #4 01-30-2010, 07:04 PM

Since I bought my Cargo a few months ago, I've been listening for stories of CF damage.

I recall hearing two so far: Cargo vs Fork Lift and a CF guitar being dropped off a stage. Both resulting in damage.

From my reading on carbon fiber, I'd think that these guitars are stronger than 90+% of the guitar cases on the market.

I take mine on planes with the gig bag, but if I knew it was going to be checked, I'd put it in a hard shell case.

backdrifter · #5 01-30-2010, 07:23 PM

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses. I've been having a bit of a problem finding the "perfect for me" travel guitar. They all have cons in one way or another. I figured if the general consensus was that a CF guitar could withstand the tough life of the cargo hold, I'd just get a full size guitar and not worry about the cons of the travel guitars I'm considering. Oh well, back to the drawing board!

aieauka · #6 01-30-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backdrifter

I've been trying to make a decision on a travel guitar for the last few weeks, and I keep leaning towards a carbon fiber guitar. The ones I'm looking at are the Blackbird Rider, the Emerald X5, and the CA Cargo. I know they are all advertised as small enough to fit in overhead bins, but when you look at their lengths (I believe the X5 is the shortest at 33.5"), they would have trouble passing on the regional jets that I tend to fly on very frequently.

So, if I'm going to end up having to frequently gate check the guitar anyway, I figure why not just get a larger guitar and check it all the time. After looking at lots of videos, I really dig the way the CA OX sounds (as much as I can tell from videos). I'm familiar with carbon fiber in other products, and I know it is extremely strong. But how strong is it? Would you feel comfortable checking a medium to full size carbon fiber guitar in a padded gig bag with the airlines on a regular basis? I'm obviously not as much concerned with temperature and pressure as I am with bumps and bruises.

Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

I always take my gtr onto the plane w/ me. I have traveled all over the world to play music. When traveling to play on cruise ships, I always take a travel gtr like the Blackbird Rider, CA Cargo, Martin LX1E, etc. Out of all of them, the Blackbird Rider is the lightest at 2 3/4 lbs. It fits easily into the OHC of an airplane. It's never a problem hauling around on your back cause it hardly weighs anything. It comes w/ a more than adequately lined & padded gig bag. The Cargo gig bag is heavier because it is more thickly padded. Also the Cargo gtr is heavier at about 4 lbs.

The Martin LX1E has a spruce top and sounds fuller than a Baby Taylor (and I have 3 Baby Taylors so I know of what I speak). It has HPL sides and back w/ a laminated neck. It is a pretty good gigging gtr too and I have used it on cruise ships also.

Like I've said, in the end, it's always up to the player. If you decide on some gtr for whatever reason, you will soon know if it's the right decision.

I hope you find this info helpful.

backdrifter · #7 01-30-2010, 09:20 PM

Hi aieauka,

You post was helpful, as was your other post on my thread regarding the Blackbird guitar. Unfortunately, all the travel guitars I know of have downsides (to me). The way I see it, they are:

1. Any wood guitar - easier to damage, have to worry about temperatures and humidity. As of now, I'm not considering a wood guitar because of these issues.

2. Blackbird Rider - price, at nearly 50% higher than other competitors.

3. Emerald X5 - less full sound (from what I've been able to find on them), possibly uncomfortable for me to play due to the lack of a decent forearm rest.

3. CA Cargo - short scale length.

As much as I promised myself I would not get a short scale length guitar, I'm leaning towards the Cargo right now. In the comparison videos I've seen, I prefer the fullness and bass response of the Cargo over the Blackbird. I appreciated your comments in my other thread, but much of the praise that you gave the Blackbird over the Cargo had to do with the plugged in sound. Since this will be solely an acoustic instrument for me (I'm not even looking at the models with the pickups), that is a non-issue. If prices were equal, I'd be going for the Blackbird due to the scale length. But at nearly double the price that I can get a brand new Cargo Raw for, I just can't justify the price difference for a travel instrument.

royd · #8 01-30-2010, 10:21 PM

yes, the carbon fiber guitars are tougher than wood but not indestructible.

I have a Cargo and am very happy with it. It doesn't sound like a travel guitar. If you use medium strings, the tension is similar to a longer scale length with light strings. Set-up is pretty critical with these or you end up with intonation issues and in my experience the factory set-up is not that good. IMHO, with a good set up it is head and shoulders above the less expensive travel guitars and the equal of many more expensive parlors. I have played te Blackbird and preferred the Cargo regardless of price.

For travel, I picked up a gator 3/4 hard case. It is a little heavier than the gig bag but adds significant protection if you have to check the guitar. And it is still easier/lighter than schelping a full size guitar in a hard case through an airport. And even in a hard case, if you can carry on, you want to... That said, in a recent trip with my cargo in the hard case - 6 separate legs - I was able to carry it on all except a regional prop jet where I gate checked it. I felt fine doing that with the hard case.

backdrifter · #9 01-30-2010, 10:45 PM

Hi Royd,

Thanks for the input. Can you clarify why you prefer the Cargo over the Blackbird? Was it sound, playability, feel, all of the above? From videos, I could see liking the sound of the Cargo more, but I just don't think there is anyway I could end up liking the short Cargo scale more than the 24.5" Blackbird scale. Thanks again!

royd · #10 01-31-2010, 01:03 AM

backdrifter, I've only payed the blackbird once or twice but as I remember it, it sounded a bit nasal and had the sound characteristics of a very small guitar. And the shape felt a little strange.

The cargo really does sound like a bigger guitar - it has a big bottom end and a nice top end, the response strikes me as being similar to a dread - although it isn't as loud as a full size instrument.

I think the overall design and probably the workmanship are better on the blackbird. Still, the cargo just feels more right to me. You just have to conceptualize the scale length like a capo on the 2nd fret... and if you used light or extra light strings, you could tune it up that far.

$ongWriter · #11 01-31-2010, 05:42 AM

Last year I went to the NAMM show here in Nashville. At the CA booth they had a CA dred on display. It was found under a car during hurricane Katrina. The pick-up didn't work and the screws holding it in were rusty but the guitar played and sounded amazing on the acoustic side. They are very tough...and they sound good too!!..I had one of the older models and let it get away...my CA Bluegrass performer should get here monday or tue...I can't wait. Using it to write and travel with.

backdrifter · #12 01-31-2010, 08:59 AM

Royd, thanks again for your response. That makes sense, and like I said, when I've heard the two side by side on YouTube (thanks to MacNichol guitars), the Cargo did indeed sound fuller and closer to a full sized instrument.

$ongWriter, thanks for the story! Pretty cool that it survived Katrina!

Irreverent · #13 01-31-2010, 10:04 AM

Mornin'!

I was just at NAMM and played the Rider and the Cargo within seconds of each other. I don't think that you can make any judgements based on videos, unless you know that they were made in identical circumstances with identical equipment. With no disrespect intended to anyone above, I believe the Rider to be superior. The sound of the Rider is full and balanced, and while the Cargo does have a good bottom end, it did not sound as balanced as did the Rider. The Rider sounds like a smaller version of my CA COT Legacy, which I believe to have an incredible acoustic sound. I believe the Rider sounds more like the Legacy than does the Cargo.

The playability of the Rider is superior, as the scale length difference is a significant factor for me. No small travel guitar is going to be ergonomically satisfactory compared to a full-sized guitar. With a strap on the Rider, I have no playing issues at all.

In short, I put my money where my mouth is, as I just received my Rider on Friday. Obviously these are only my opinions, but I feel that the extra cost of the Rider is more than justified on all fronts. Remember as well that if you buy directly from Blackbird, you have three weeks to make sure it's the right instrument for you.

I hope this helps. I plan on posting a review soon.

Peace.

gray · #14 01-31-2010, 12:25 PM

"So, exactly how tough are these carbon fiber guitars?"

Maybe they're almost as tough as a carbon fiber viola:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf2w2zMNvzE

aieauka · #15 01-31-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Hi aieauka,

You post was helpful, as was your other post on my thread regarding the Blackbird guitar. Unfortunately, all the travel guitars I know of have downsides (to me). The way I see it, they are:

1. Any wood guitar - easier to damage, have to worry about temperatures and humidity. As of now, I'm not considering a wood guitar because of these issues.

2. Blackbird Rider - price, at nearly 50% higher than other competitors.

3. Emerald X5 - less full sound (from what I've been able to find on them), possibly uncomfortable for me to play due to the lack of a decent forearm rest.

3. CA Cargo - short scale length.

As much as I promised myself I would not get a short scale length guitar, I'm leaning towards the Cargo right now. In the comparison videos I've seen, I prefer the fullness and bass response of the Cargo over the Blackbird. I appreciated your comments in my other thread, but much of the praise that you gave the Blackbird over the Cargo had to do with the plugged in sound. Since this will be solely an acoustic instrument for me (I'm not even looking at the models with the pickups), that is a non-issue. If prices were equal, I'd be going for the Blackbird due to the scale length. But at nearly double the price that I can get a brand new Cargo Raw for, I just can't justify the price difference for a travel instrument.

I agree w/ you. If all you want is an acoustic gtr for traveling, then I would recommend the CA Cargo. It sounds fuller because of more bassiness. But remember, at some given time, you might want to install a p/up in it. That's when the Blackbird Rider is clearly above the Cargo.

Both these gtrs are entirely carbon graphite and strong gtrs which will survive the harshest treatment- not that you would want to. But by being carbon graphite, they are also the most carefree type gtrs too and can be left in a hot/cold car trunk in the summmer/winter. They are both small and will fit into the OHC of an airplane cabin.

Luka maika`i ia `oe (Good luck to you)