Any reason for a drop in long saddle vs standard length in a Martin?

[D41Fan]

Is there any benefits from a drop in long saddle compared to a standard length?
Does it offer better protection against splitting the bridge? Any difference in tone?

Thanks,
Dan

[Russ C]

Not that I can see. If anything it would split easier I reckon because there is less wood at the sides, and I can’t see how it would make any sonic difference unless there’s a weight difference - even then no, it’d be too small to make a difference.

I’d like there to be some advantage because I have one but I just can’t see how.

It’s just a nod to the past imo.

[Wade Hampton]

Dan, Russ is correct about how the longer saddle makes the bridge more likely to split; that’s why Martin went to the drop-in saddle in the first place.

Bear in mind that the bridge won’t automatically split with the longer saddle, or Martin wouldn’t have revived the design in the first place. But it does make splitting the bridge somewhat more likely.

There are some traditionalist die-hards who want that longer saddle, and many of them claim that the longer saddle transfers more energy to the top than the drop-saddles do. Frankly, I can’t offer an opinion either way about that: I’ve heard great Martins with both kinds of saddles.

But enough players want the longer saddle that Martin does offer them on some guitars, typically higher priced limited edition models and their Authentic series.

Short version: yes, the longer saddle does make the bridges they’re paired with somewhat more prone to splitting, but whether the longer saddle delivers more tone than a regular drop-in saddle, I couldn’t tell you.

So I have to claim a neutral stance on that assertion.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[JayBee1404]

My view on long saddles is that they should be glued, even the ‘drop-in’ long saddles, which helps defend against the bridge splitting. I’m also persuaded that gluing makes the bridge and saddle one unit, and may well be beneficial to sound-transference, but that’s just my theory based on no actual evidence whatsoever.

The drawback, of course, is that replacing a glued-in saddle is more difficult than one which is not glued but it’s perfectly possible to do it - just requires technique and patience!

[Scotso]

The other issue with the long saddle is that the proper installation is to glue it in. So you put glue on the sides and bottom of the saddle. I always found this to be a pain so I would just put a dab on the bottom of the saddle. I am not sure if it affects tone...supposedly does but who knows....but trying to remove that long saddle with a full glue job is a royal pain.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by D41Fan

Is there any benefits from a drop in long saddle compared to a standard length?
Does it offer better protection against splitting the bridge? Any difference in tone?

Thanks,
Dan

Hi Dan,
The mortised/drop-in saddle has a big advantage when it comes to height adjustment: You do it from the bottom by adding or taking away material, and it's invisible.

With a slotted-through saddle the action adjustment is properly done from the top, and only for lowering. If you take material off the bottom, the saddle effectively gets shorter, and it looks bad on the ends.

As far as sound transmission advantage? Nothing meaningful.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

[MC5C]

In the olde dayes, it was probably a cost driven manufacturing decision - a through slot is easier to tool up to rout than a stopped slot, costs less, has a certain visual appeal. Now it's a traditional feature that people debate advantages in tone about.

[hermithollow]

Powered wood working routers didn't come into common use until the 1960's. A through saddle slot can be cut on a tablesaw. Gluing in through saddles adds a lot of strength to the front of the bridge, but may require routing out for replacement.
A well fitted drop in saddle has the advantage of easy adjustment or replacement.

[D41Fan]

I never thought about the adjustment pat of it. For instance the Martin D28V has the long drop in saddle that is not glued in. I can see your points about having to shave it from the top so the edges do not go into the bridge.

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by D41Fan

I never thought about the adjustment pat of it. For instance the Martin D28V has the long drop in saddle that is not glued in. I can see your points about having to shave it from the top so the edges do not go into the bridge.

Never seen one from factory that was glued in as Martin figures you may wanna adjust. Gluing is just common practice. But I know a few who will not do it as it makes removing/replacing the saddle a pain- requiring heat to loosen the glue.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Scotso

Never seen one from factory that was glued in as Martin figures you may wanna adjust.

My Martin OM-28 Marquis, which I purchased brand new from MFG in 2007, had a glued-in pocketed long-saddle. I believe glueing the saddles on Marquis-series and GE-series guitars was Martin’s standard practice. The question of glueing compromising ease of adjustment only arises if you want to raise the action, if you need to lower it, adjustment is made by removing material from the top of the saddle - this is also true of an unglued pocketed long saddle.

[TDavis]

I don't know about the positive side of a long saddle vs. the standard drop-in one most commonly used by Martin now...but I have heard a lot about the major negative side: the royal pain in the rear it is to install an under saddle pickup with the glued in long saddle.

I'm quite sure a skilled luthier could/would do it...but he/she won't say they like it.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

I have heard a lot about the major negative side: the royal pain in the rear it is to install an under saddle pickup with the glued in long saddle.

Some people, including me, regard that as a major positive!

[brencat]

Originally Posted by Scotso

Never seen one from factory that was glued in as Martin figures you may wanna adjust. Gluing is just common practice. But I know a few who will not do it as it makes removing/replacing the saddle a pain- requiring heat to loosen the glue.

Actually Bourgeois, Collings, and Santa Cruz long saddles are not glued in. Martin Vintage Series guitars (HD-28v, OM-28v) were similarly not glued in, but the GE series (D-28 Marquis, 000-18GE) and all Authentics are.

[Scotso]

Does everyone lower saddle height from the top? I would never do it cuz I do not wanna mess with the compensation and radius as I would prob screw it up. I have never even considered doing it from the top.