Which Luthiers Have the Best Braz Sets?

TwinDad · #1 09-28-2020, 08:09 PM

Hello!

I’m on a quest for a “grail” guitar and I’ve settled on a Dread with Brazilian back and sides and an Adi top. (Big surprise I know

I’m thinking of commissioning my guitar in 1-3 years but I’m trying to figure Out the pricing for the boutique market and weather the pricing matches the quality of the tone woods being used essentially. For example, I’ve been tracking Santa Cruz guitars for a long time and even visited a dealer to try a few out but my lord the prices sure are high! I know SC commands major respect but is their price reflective of the superiority of their Brazilian compared to say H&D, Bourgeois, or other reputable luthiers who offer a similar product in terms of materials. (I know the builds are different etc)

What I’m really looking for is to being able to commission an heirloom guitar where I know the BR I get is a good to great set and not the dregs.

I’d also appreciate tips on how to evaluate the look and texture of BR for quality and durability. I already know how to identify quarter sawn vs slab but is there anything else I should keep an eye out for when picking a luthier and/or a set of BR?

Much thanks to anyone looking to join me on my very enjoyable, middle-aged quest to land a grail guitar for my family to hold on to for at least a couple of generations worth of playing.

TwinDad

warfrat73 · #2 09-28-2020, 08:34 PM

The short answer is no, the quality of the wood isn't necessarily proportional to the cost. The elite small shop builders, like Greenfield, Olson, Wingert, etc. can demand relatively higher prices than smaller less well known ones, even if the quality of the wood isn't quite as good.

Even when you're paying top dollar for tonewoods, the cost of materials is a relatively small fraction of the total cost. You're paying for labor and expertise.

And there's certainly no guaranty that the best piece of wood is going to make the best guitar. It seems to me that you're putting the cart before the horse a bit. I'd look to the builder first, and the wood second.

And, part of the reason that Santa Cruz are so expensive at the moment, is that Richard Hoover is looking towards retiring, and raised his prices a few years ago... seemingly to drive down demand and allow him to slow down a bit.

All that being said, I have no idea who has the best... probability (and purchasing power) suggest it's probably Martin.

salsarev · #3 09-28-2020, 08:36 PM

Hi Twin Dad and welcome to the forum. I would recommend you take a look at Elijah Jewel guitars (www.elijahjewelguitars.com). Michael Kerry is a superb craftsman and a great guy. I visited his shop a couple of months ago. He happened to have a piece of BRW on hand. He showed me how to tap test a piece of wood and I was amazed at how it sounded. He also has an OM for sale on his website in BRW. I did not commission a guitar from him, but I recently owned one I got through a trade. Beautiful tone and attention to detail. Give him a look.

TwinDad · #4 09-28-2020, 08:45 PM

Absolutely agree that the build matters more. My problem is that I hear nothing but great things about all of them - SC, H&D, Bourgeois, Collings, Thompson, Froggy Bottom etc. I’m less familiar with smaller/individual luthiers but have also heard nothing but great things. So honestly I figured see if I can ID who’s stocking the best materials, try those out, and then go from there based on personal taste.

Definitely don’t want to have people in here being negative but it is hard to compare these luthiers based on research at least. Plus the pandemic sure isn’t helping.

TwinDad · #5 09-28-2020, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salsarev

Hi Twin Dad and welcome to the forum. I would recommend you take a look at Elijah Jewel guitars (www.elijahjewelguitars.com). Michael Kerry is a superb craftsman and a great guy. I visited his shop a couple of months ago. He happened to have a piece of BRW on hand. He showed me how to tap test a piece of wood and I was amazed at how it sounded. He also has an OM for sale on his website in BRW. I did not commission a guitar from him, but I recently owned one I got through a trade. Beautiful tone and attention to detail. Give him a look.

Thanks-I will check it out!

warfrat73 · #6 09-28-2020, 08:49 PM

It's mostly just personal preference once you get to that point. Especially since, shopping for BRW, you're looking at the upper end of their ranges.

But as you said, hard to sort that out the moment.

D41Fan · #7 09-28-2020, 08:51 PM

Do not go to Martin looking for quality woods. I have seen the Braz as well as the Madi, and would't use it at all...I know I have some of their custom shop Madi and if thats the best they got, they can keep it. Especially the fact you cant choose your wood selection.

Iain1231 · #8 09-28-2020, 08:54 PM

You can consider Taylor's BTO Brazilian. An alternative would be Tom Sands, who might be able to build you a custom build according to your specifications

islandguitar · #9 09-28-2020, 09:14 PM

Hi Twin Dad....

Check out Tom Doerr for his offerings. I believe he has a substantial selection of Braz, makes fantastic guitars...his own designs from 00 to Mod Dread. You'll see that he has 3 levels of his models based on detail, wood choice and appointments. Each of them has Brazilian as a standard offering if desired.
Tom is an AGF sponsor and listed on the right hand column here. I believe the web site is www.doerrguitars.com
Tom's an amazing person and artist with the experience and the "receipts" from many admiring folks here on AGF and around the world. My Legacy from '14 is build # 103 so Tom is well above that number now and still going.

TwinDad · #10 09-28-2020, 10:10 PM

Hey those look amazing but I’m reading they are mostly finger style. I’m looking for a “cannon” where I can get a little crazy. Any experience playing these in that capacity?

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandguitar

Hi Twin Dad....

Check out Tom Doerr for his offerings. I believe he has a substantial selection of Braz, makes fantastic guitars...his own designs from 00 to Mod Dread. You'll see that he has 3 levels of his models based on detail, wood choice and appointments. Each of them has Brazilian as a standard offering if desired.
Tom is an AGF sponsor and listed on the right hand column here. I believe the web site is www.doerrguitars.com
Tom's an amazing person and artist with the experience and the "receipts" from many admiring folks here on AGF and around the world. My Legacy from '14 is build # 103 so Tom is well above that number now and still going.

brencat · #11 09-28-2020, 11:21 PM

I'm a huge fan of Santa Cruz guitars, but IMO their new pricing has totally jumped the shark. I bought both of mine used and if you do that you will be much better off than being the first owner who took the massive resale hit.

I think you need to play some of these brands to get a baseline for their general tone, then decide who you will use. But there's no shortage of Adi/BRW dreads used out there to find and play, and if you can find one that you love, all the better.

madison · #12 09-29-2020, 05:14 AM

When I see Brazilian guitars on the web, I notice that some backs are highly figured while others are relatively straight grained. Which is better?

SprintBob · #13 09-29-2020, 05:57 AM

My advice to you if you go the custom route would be to not paint yourself into a corner in wanting only a BRW guitar. The best BRW is extremely limited, thus the very high price when you find a luthier who has some. The used route may be better only if you can play the guitar before you buy it.

I have a guitar on commission and currently in build with Jason Kostal. When he started his single man operation about 10 years ago, most of the guitars he was building for his clients were BRW because he had it. He still has some but it is now so scarce you will pay a very high premium for the quality BRW Jason will accept for his builds. The good news is the level of custom luthiers like Jason is so high that they can create guitars with alternate tonewood options that can rival what BRW offers. My commission is being built with master grade koa back and sides. The production guitar builders probably have very little to no high quality BRW to offer at this point (maybe Martin’s custom shop has it but expect to pay a lot for it).

If you want an heirloom guitar, consider finding the luthier first, develop a clear vision and statement for him or her of what you want from the guitar, and then let the luthier propose the best options to work from. There are many worthy ones to consider.

Good luck.

The Bard Rocks · #14 09-29-2020, 05:57 AM

Many will say the straight-grained is the best. That's an over-simplification. Look for properly quarter-sawn (many - not all - of the prettiest are flat-sawn) and, above all, listen to the advice of your builder.

hermithollow · #15 09-29-2020, 06:08 AM

If I was looking for a BRW/Adi guitar I would look on the "used" market. There are plenty of "post war" guitars that don't command the crazy prices of the "pre-war" guitars. Finding an existing guitar lets you see the wood and hear the sound of the guitar you are buying.
There are many builders who can produce a fine guitar in those materials, but it may not have exactly the sound or playability you want. Your "grail" may wind up as an unplayed Heirloom.
As to the figuring in Brazilian rosewood, some is unrelated to the "grain" of the wood - it can be "figured" with "ink" lines and yet still be well quartered. However some of the figured wood you see now is "stump" wood - unstable compression wood cut from the stumps that are normally not used. Brazilian rosewood tends to be crack prone to start with so stump wood is not a good choice.