woody mann dvd question

[shawlie]

First of all, I have only great admiration for him and really like the two dvds of his I already have ( "Logic of the Fretboard" and "Ragtime and Gospel"). I like his orignal stuff, too.

The "Ragtime and Gospel" has songs from Rev. Gary Davis, and I haven't had it long. I bought it because I liked the "Freatboard" one, and watched it a couple of times (with guitar in hand).

I've been trying to learn some of Blind Blake's stuff, and have a Grossman book of tabs (which is nice enough) but a lot of it's pretty difficult (I've learned two of his easier songs, and must admit they sound nothing like Blind Blake, and I listen to him quite a lot).

I know Mann has a dvd on his music, but before I order it, I have a question.

Despite how much I enjoy the new one about Davis, his tab is very basic. He plays it like the tab, and then often starts to add other, more fancy things (like syncopated bass lines). This isn't tabbed out, and he just explains, "if you keep playing it enough, you'll just start to do those things naturally".

This might be true for people with more talent than I have, but I feel the need to have things explained very well to understand them (and am very, very bad at picking up things by ear - it's almost impossible for me, I just don't hear it).

So my question, is the Blake tab that comes with the dvd just a basic outline, like the Gary Davis tab? Are you expected to develop the songs on your own, after watching him explain it, or does the tab pretty well relate to what he's doing on the dvd?

[mud4feet]

Originally Posted by shawlie

.........This isn't tabbed out, and he just explains, "if you keep playing it enough, you'll just start to do those things naturally".

This might be true for people with more talent than I have, but I feel the need to have things explained very well to understand them (and am very, very bad at picking up things by ear - it's almost impossible for me, I just don't hear it).............

I'm not going to be much help here, shawlie. I just find it hard to believe the stuff I quoted.

I've heard your original stuff, and, yeah, they may have been "based" on things you've learned from tabs and DVDs, but I hear "shawlie" stuff filtering in here and there. I think that's what he meant by "you'll just start doing those things". My early influence was Bob Dylan (early '60s) and there's probably still a lot of my "sound" that was derived from that. It all evolves.........don't rely solely on the books and DVDs (although they are a GREAT source).......just trust yourself and keep pluggin' away. Heck, I've learned a few things from you just joining this forum!!!!

[deltoid]

I have the DVD that you are refering to. It has been at least a year or more since I've used it though. I remember the tabs being fairly accurate to what Woody was playing. I was able to learn "Police Dog Blues" and "Black Dog Blues". I wouldn't say that Woody's arrangements are completely faithful to the way Blind Blake plays them, but they are quite good and capture the essence of Blind Blake's playing style.

I really wish I could find the tab booklet that came with it. Dang, now I'm going to be up all night looking for it.

He does a version of "Blind Arthur's Breakdown" that is very difficult, I don't think I'll even ever try that one. "Black Dog Blues" isn't overly complicated and I like his arrangement.

I feel that the DVD was worth the money I spent. I don't remember having an issue with the tabs that came with it, except that I CAN'T FIND THE BOOKLET

[RickI]

I've got "A Handful of Riffs".... and it's pretty good...

But I did notice the same thing about the tabs not being a full representation.. and also that when he plays up to temp, he throws little variations and embellishments in that aren't in his "slowed down verison"..


Rick

[shawlie]

Originally Posted by mud4feet

I'm not going to be much help here, shawlie. I just find it hard to believe the stuff I quoted.

I've heard your original stuff, and, yeah, they may have been "based" on things you've learned from tabs and DVDs, but I hear "shawlie" stuff filtering in here and there. I think that's what he meant by "you'll just start doing those things". My early influence was Bob Dylan (early '60s) and there's probably still a lot of my "sound" that was derived from that. It all evolves.........don't rely solely on the books and DVDs (although they are a GREAT source).......just trust yourself and keep pluggin' away. Heck, I've learned a few things from you just joining this forum!!!!

Thanks for the reply, mud4feet, you do give me something to think about. I might have a "tab" problem, I do rely on it quite a bit, actually. I used to never use it when I was younger - never actually had the patience to learn a "real" song, so I'd make eveything up. But that kind of made learning a little slow - since I've been looking at lots of tabs the past year or so, it's helped to explain a lot of the stuff I'm hearing when other people play.

It is a problem for me to learn by ear, though. I get a song in my head, like "Clementine" or "Been Working on the Railroad" and I try to arrange them, and keep getting stuck on the melody line. So I have to look up sheet music to find the melody line - I have the hardest time hearing what notes come next. Chords are easier, but the melody doesn't always make sense to me, and so I struggle a bit when I hear finger-picking and all those notes just kind of confuse me.

Again, I understand what you mean and probably should try to develop things more on my own. I suppose that's how most people learned to play anyway, back then - they'd hear and see someone playing and try to do the same. It's good advice and certainly something I'll try to put into practice more often!

[shawlie]

Originally Posted by deltoid

I have the DVD that you are refering to. It has been at least a year or more since I've used it though. I remember the tabs being fairly accurate to what Woody was playing. I was able to learn "Police Dog Blues" and "Black Dog Blues". I wouldn't say that Woody's arrangements are completely faithful to the way Blind Blake plays them, but they are quite good and capture the essence of Blind Blake's playing style.

I really wish I could find the tab booklet that came with it. Dang, now I'm going to be up all night looking for it.

He does a version of "Blind Arthur's Breakdown" that is very difficult, I don't think I'll even ever try that one. "Black Dog Blues" isn't overly complicated and I like his arrangement.

I feel that the DVD was worth the money I spent. I don't remember having an issue with the tabs that came with it, except that I CAN'T FIND THE BOOKLET

Thanks for the reply, it's helpful information!

"Black Dog Blues" is a great song, and one of the reasons his collection looked nice to me (also good to hear it's not overly difficult)

If the tab follows his playing closely, I think I'd like to probably get it. The main thing, is those syncopated bass notes Blake always did - I just wanted to make sure they were included in the written information.

Because on the Gary Davis one, in the version of "O Glory", he plays it "straight", like his tab. Then he goes on to play a fantastic, syncopated version - just an incredible sound (that makes me very happy ). I've watched it about 25 times since I've got it, and it's just a little rough to figure out what he's doing a lot of the time ('cause he's not syncopating the melody, but the bass and it's a new concept to me to actually try).

So I may think I'm doing it right, but I'm doing it soooo slowly, I'm not sure it'll have the right sound if I (ever) get it up to speed. So if the tab is accurate, and with the help of seeing him do it, it sounds like a good learning dvd.

Thanks a lot for the good information, I appreciate it!

[shawlie]

Originally Posted by RickI

I've got "A Handful of Riffs".... and it's pretty good...

But I did notice the same thing about the tabs not being a full representation.. and also that when he plays up to temp, he throws little variations and embellishments in that aren't in his "slowed down verison"..


Rick

That sounds like a good one, too, I was wondering about it as well. I'm tempted, and like his playing a lot, so I'll take a closer look.

Again, I wish the tab would be the same, especially for variations (which I'm rather bad at...). In the Gary Davis one, he does tab out four variations of "Hesitation Blues" which I found extremely helpful in learning more about inventing those things yourself - how to keep close enough to the feel of the song, without doing the same exact playing, time after time.

New riffs are always fun, too - thanks for the info, just might have to give it a go... And explain to my wife why I need more tab - but it's cheaper than a new guitar... (well, with the amount I've spent on tab books, I could have probably gotten another guitar by now... oops....).

[stefano]

I've attended Woody's workshop here in Italy last w-e and what Woody told is: don't get lost in tab, you have to learn the melody, the chord, learn the tab by memory (and when you have it by memory you are just at the beginning to lear it), and, then, things, begin to happen.
But, before, you have to learn the CAGED method, that is Fretboard Logic.
anyway I've the Blind Blake Woody Dvd and it is really good, better than the Book, the Blind Arthur's Breakdown is complete and accurate.
For deltoid I think that a copy of the booklet is in pdf on the dvd.

[stringbound]

The Tabs that come with the DVDs from SGGW are very close to what is taught in the instructional part, so you can buy the DVD.

I have all of Stefan Grossmans DVDs on Country Blues and work with them regularily. I favour them a bit over the "Art of acoustic Blues" series with Woody Mann (got the DVDs, too).

What Woody Mann does is preparing you to learn in the "traditional" fashion, by watching and listening to other players. Sort of ear and eye training thing, which is pretty useful.

[shawlie]

Originally Posted by stefano

I've attended Woody's workshop here in Italy last w-e and what Woody told is: don't get lost in tab, you have to learn the melody, the chord, learn the tab by memory (and when you have it by memory you are just at the beginning to lear it), and, then, things, begin to happen.
But, before, you have to learn the CAGED method, that is Fretboard Logic.
anyway I've the Blind Blake Woody Dvd and it is really good, better than the Book, the Blind Arthur's Breakdown is complete and accurate.
For deltoid I think that a copy of the booklet is in pdf on the dvd.

Man, it must be great taking a workshop with someone like Woody Mann! Can see how it could really be an inspiring event.

I agree about not getting too hooked on the tab. But my original problem was how he'd start playing very syncopated bass lines without really explaining how to do it, and it wasn't written in the tab (the "Gospel and Ragtime" dvd about Gary Davis). I really wanted an explanation of that technique.

Which I found in another of his dvds - "Play that Guitar Rag". A wonderful help for that style, and here he does go into depth about getting that sound and feel. Even with his great teaching, I find it very difficult to do but I can't blame the instructor for that, of course...

Thanks for the reply - and I do have his "Logic of the Fretboard" dvd. I like it a lot, but mainly for the songs. I've played on and off for years, and at one point was really into theory and learned a lot about chords, postitions, inversions and different shapes all over the neck. And now for some reason I only play cowboy chords, but I like cowboy type music, I guess.

[shawlie]

Originally Posted by stringbound

The Tabs that come with the DVDs from SGGW are very close to what is taught in the instructional part, so you can buy the DVD.

I have all of Stefan Grossmans DVDs on Country Blues and work with them regularily. I favour them a bit over the "Art of acoustic Blues" series with Woody Mann (got the DVDs, too).

What Woody Mann does is preparing you to learn in the "traditional" fashion, by watching and listening to other players. Sort of ear and eye training thing, which is pretty useful.

Very funny, I actually got the dvd just yesterday! I ordered it back in June, but things went wrong and it took forever to arrive. I only watched it once so far, but think it's fantastic. Hearing him play those tunes is truly amazing, and he spends lots of time explaining things. The tab looks very complete too, so it'll be a big help putting the video instruction together with the written instructions.

I like Grossman's books, too, but don't actually have any of his dvds. I already learned "Chump Man Blues" and "That Will Never Happen No More" from Grossman's book on Blake, but seeing/hearing the versions Mann plays, they seem a lot closer to Blake's playing than Grossman's versions. It'll probably take some time getting the old versions out of my head, but it's fun seeing the different approach they both take.

And I listen to Blake, Fuller, McTell, etc. all the time - in the hopes it'll somehow rub off on me. But even if it doesn't, it's just great music to listen to anyway!