Mic setup

[ukejon]

I have a Shure KSM 137 and an Audix SCX-25A, two cardioid mics that compliment each other nicely because of their different sonic characteristics. So, is it ok to use a short mic mount, normally used for X-Y (seen here) or ORTF setup, and point them straight ahead or at slight angles inward? Will there be phase issues if I don't strictly do X-Y or ORTF?

To give you an example, I just posted a tune in the June/Bob Dylan AGF Showcase and it seems to sound ok, but I don't really know how to detect phase issues:

https://soundcloud.com/jonprown/all-...the-watchtower

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on my mic placement question.

[Bob Womack]

To check for the more obvious phase issues collapse the two stereo channels to mono and listen for hollowness in the resultant mono signal.

Bob

[ukejon]

Thanks Bob. In general, would you expect problems with two closed spaced mics of this sort?

[Ty Ford]

Nice arrangement!

It sounds a bit hollow on my Mac Book. As though there are some early reflections fighting each other, but that might be the crappy MB speakers. Don't know about how it sounds in my studio.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by ukejon

Thanks Bob. In general, would you expect problems with two closed spaced mics of this sort?

It all depends on the mics, the spacing, and the way you point them. The phase cancellation is a function of the delay introduced by the space between the two mics and the time differential between the arrivals of the sound at the two mics. That's why they suggest you use a co-incident pair (capsules occupying the same horizontal physical location). The downside is that you end up with a very narrow stereo spread.

The obvious remedy is to pull out a cheap protractor and go ORTF, but it isn't the only option, it is only a predictable, reliable option. The other option is to fiddle around until you find something that works without cancellation. Then grab a ruler and a protractor, measure it up so you can reproduce the setup, and call it the "UKEJON System." As a home recordist, one thing you have over professionals is TIME TO FIDDLE. Use it, in good health. Works for me.

There doesn't seem to be too much cancellation caused by your mic array in your recording. I think I might be hearing a bit of bounce off the cardboard gobos, though. You might drape a light blanket across them to reduce high-end splash and see if that isn't reduced.

Have fun playing around with it!

Bob

[rick-slo]

The right and left tracks in the recording are tightly correlated but the volume on the right side is down a couple of decibels. See picture:






It has the typical X/Y mike setup sound. I don't think two different mikes has much to do with a worse sound. I have never been able to do much with X/Y recordings by later tweaking them with reverb, etc.. For a better sound on solo guitar I suggest you try something other than X/Y, especially in a typical home recording environment.

[ukejon]

The obvious remedy is to pull out a cheap protractor and go ORTF, but it isn't the only option, it is only a predictable, reliable option. The other option is to fiddle around until you find something that works without cancellation. Then grab a ruler and a protractor, measure it up so you can reproduce the setup, and call it the "UKEJON System."

I've done ORTF but the spread of 110 degrees is too wide unless the mics are really close to the guitar. Probably will just do spaced pair. The Audix SCX-25A is very nice on the body of the guitar.

And thanks for the picture, Ric. Very informative. By the way, should my peaks have been much higher or were they in a good range?

Interesting spaced pair in this Frank Vignola video (not really the 3:1 rule, right?):

http://thorellguitars.com/guitars/flat-tops/corina/

I think I might be hearing a bit of bounce off the cardboard gobos, though. You might drape a light blanket across them to reduce high-end splash and see if that isn't reduced.

No cardboard. Cloth covered 4" insulation (the Fran Guidry model):

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

Fun to build.

[rick-slo]

The peaks were lower in my re-recording than in your original. Forget about the 3-1 rule. The sound in the Frank Vignola recordings was not good - thin, harsh.

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by ukejon

No cardboard. Cloth covered 4" insulation (the Fran Guidry model):

Your photo sure looks like cardboard behind the mics to me!