Percussion.

[Bushleague]

Just looking for some advice and opinions here on adding percussion tracks to acoustic recordings. As a former drummer, I think for the next phase of my recording project I'm going to start trying to add some percussion instruments into the mix.

First of all what types of percussion instruments do you guys feel fit into an acoustic mix the best? Currently I'm fairly competent on bongo's, shakers, tamborines, and spoons. Looking into adding some other toys to my collection though. My own feelings on it are that drums with less overtones seem to work better. For instance, despite their popularity I feel djembe's typically tend to sound pretty crappy in most mixes, basically just getting lost and muddying things up.

Second of all, having played around with recording percussion a little bit, I've found its very different than recording guitars. My recording setup is pretty primitive, a Shure 57 and a Tascam 4 track that has onboard dynamic mics. In my so far limited experimentation my bongo's tend to sound positively huge, while shakers and spoons go the other way and are often reduced to little more than anoying clicking sounds.

And lastly, any examples of recorded guitar and percussion music would be muchly appreciated.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

...
And lastly, any examples of recorded guitar and percussion music would be muchly appreciated.

A guy I used to work with recorded a duo of Tom Tranchilla & Buddy Allen. Alas, I gave away both copies of the CD I had so can't give you the [Austin] percussionist's name that worked on the CD (did the final mix, too - he may have done all of their 1st CD) but I think these are good examples. Don't know if the CD is available, but most if not all tracks are available at Tom's ReverbNation page.

https://www.reverbnation.com/tomtranchilla/

[AcousticDreams]

This is a Topic Matter that I am also very interested in. As I will soon begin to work on my own album. I wish to combine heavy beats with less symbol action. More Exotic Sounds.

I would like to start by suggesting a Cajon...that is if you can find one with a deep tone. Twenty one years ago I founded a once a year long weekend Get a way, up in Big Bear Lake, California. I started this event as I was working alone rebuilding my Nephew's cabin, and well...I was a bit lonely. I Invited my Traditional Archery Friends to come up and have some fun. We shot traditional archery, built bows, and had music jams.

Over the years we kept adding new advents to our weekend. Think of it similar to a Boy Scouts for Adults. So we included Building projects.
Five years ago we decided to build Cajon's from scratch. One of our members put together kits, and then we assembled them in just a day and half. My contribution was picking out the type of wood used, which was Finland Birch.

There are 20 of us, But only 10 built Cajon's. The others helped out. The Goal was to have a massive Cajon Jam...and wow...it is one of the most exhillerating memories of my life. I played guitar and sung Imagine Dragons, "Radioactive". 10 Cajon's Roared to the beat. A good sounding Cajon can add dept with a solid beat to the mix.

I can not vouch for this product...and I am not liking the sound of the Cajon used in this video, But the product has some potential as A Cajon Add on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOY6dO1M23I&t=88s

Loreena Mckennit beautiful music includes all kinds of unusual instruments backing her haunting melodies. I can not find it right now, but there is an Outdoor concert showing all some of the percussive instruments used.
For now, here is one of her most famous songs and you can see a couple of hand drums used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxTpvA-pUG0

If I had the time, as a wood worker....I would build all kinds of wooden drums. But alas, one can not do everything. So I will be investigating Programs with exotic drum sounds. I am actually looking for recommendations of plug in's for exotic drum and percussive sounds. This is an area you might also consider exploring.

[Gordon Currie]

I've worked off and on with percussionists for over 4 decades. Most often traditional set pieces do not work.

I have found that metal (cymbals especially) often clash with steel strings. Playing with mallets can soften their impact.

Many drum kit pieces have too much dynamic range for acoustic guitars.

I find shakers of all types to be good, with little sustain to cloud the mix.

Skin drums and cajons can be good as they provide a lower 'pitch' which is complementary to guitar.

A guy in my area has specialized in tongue drums with acoustic guitars.

For inspiration check out Airto Moreira (esp anything with acoustic guitar), Nana Vasconcelos (anything he did with Egberto Gismonti), and Trilok Gurtu (the album Live at the Royal Albert Hall with John McLaughlin).

I think the best way to imagine your role is as a colorist. You might end up being less rhythm focused than in a drummer role, but you can provide an interesting sound palette.

[Brent Hahn]

I think it's fun to do percussion with random household items...

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Just looking for some advice and opinions here on adding percussion tracks to acoustic recordings. As a former drummer, I think for the next phase of my recording project I'm going to start trying to add some percussion instruments into the mix.

First of all what types of percussion instruments do you guys feel fit into an acoustic mix the best? Currently I'm fairly competent on bongo's, shakers, tamborines, and spoons. Looking into adding some other toys to my collection though. My own feelings on it are that drums with less overtones seem to work better. For instance, despite their popularity I feel djembe's typically tend to sound pretty crappy in most mixes, basically just getting lost and muddying things up.

Second of all, having played around with recording percussion a little bit, I've found its very different than recording guitars. My recording setup is pretty primitive, a Shure 57 and a Tascam 4 track that has onboard dynamic mics. In my so far limited experimentation my bongo's tend to sound positively huge, while shakers and spoons go the other way and are often reduced to little more than anoying clicking sounds.

And lastly, any examples of recorded guitar and percussion music would be muchly appreciated.

In one of my band iterations I played bass, acoustic guitar and Telecaster in a band that played "progressive" oldtime music. In addition to me we had a great clawhammer banjo player, fiddle player, and a great percussion player. For most of the oldtime accompaniment he played Doumbek and also had ankle and shoe/mounted rattles, small bells, and other things that varied every time he "suited up". We played a pretty eclectic mix of music, so it was always great fun. Pink Floyd's "Another Brick In The Wall" was a perennial crowd favorite.

My point is simply to experiment and see what works for you.

I had no idea how well a lot of rock music translated to clawhammer banjo repertoire until we worked on some of the material.

There are some Buddy and Julie Miller videos on Youtube where Julie plays a 5 gallon plastic pail with drum sticks quite effectively.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I wish to combine heavy beats with less symbol action. More Exotic Sounds.

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

I've worked off and on with percussionists for over 4 decades. Most often traditional set pieces do not work.

I have found that metal (cymbals especially) often clash with steel strings. Playing with mallets can soften their impact.

Many drum kit pieces have too much dynamic range for acoustic guitars.

I find shakers of all types to be good, with little sustain to cloud the mix.

Skin drums and cajons can be good as they provide a lower 'pitch' which is complementary to guitar.

Really good to know Gordon Currie. Not having recorded much with drums and acoustic guitar, it was only my suspicion that symbols might clash with the beautiful overtones of the steel strings. Your can certainly speak with great knowledge with over four decades of experience.

Here is a dear friend of mine who made a promo for the Earthworks SV33 microphone. He Brilliantly adds a couple of make shift rhythm instruments...Plus the Cajon he made at our gathering...

At around two minutes and 10 seconds he starts telling of the instruments he used, including a packing box, Taborine, Cigar Box Cajon & shaker. Very inventive and sounds great. Well worth the listen.
Video in in the middle of the page

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ser-microphone

[jim1960]

Listen to John Gorka's After Yesterday album. Most of the songs make interesting percussion choices.

[Bushleague]

Thanks for the replys so far guys. The end goal I'm going for is to get as close to the sound of a band as I can, with the self imposed limitation that the music could be recreated in a totaly un-amplified setting. A few things:

I agree, cajone's sound great with acoustic guitars, from the stuff I've listened to probably the best out of any hand drum. Unfortunately in my fairly limited experimentation... I just really hate playing them. Perhaps I just need to knuckle down and see if I dont come around.

I agree with the "colorist" thing, I'm finding that with percussion what I choose not to play is almost more important than what I choose to actually play. While jamming or whatnot I enjoy creating fairly buisy/ technical beats, on recordings I've often been more pleased with the results of leaving as much space as possible... instead of carying a 16th note funk beat, sometimes taking it back to throwing a quick double stroke and the odd bass hit in key places will have a far better effect. Basically starting with the beat I would play, and stripping it down the the bare minimum I can get away with.

If I really do want a driving beat using multiple pieces seems to work better. For instance using a shaker with my right hand, using my left to throw the snare and bass beats on my bongo's, and I have a tamborine mounted on a stand that sounds good if I use it for ocasional offbeats. I can create some pretty good groove like that without sounding cluttered. Unfortunately I've developed a tendancy to gravitate towards doing this, with the result that it loses its effect and just sounds repetative. Although I can play drums pretty well, I really feel like I have such a long way to go before I can call myself a percussionist.

[KevWind]

I am by no means a drummer (so take that into consideration)

But here are my thoughts

Drum kit. I played about 8-10 live gigs with a drummer friend of mine. I had my acoustic plugged in.. He playe simpl beats for the most part with some fills .
The kick was fine . He used those Gel dampening thingies to tame the snare and one tom. He did not use the high hats, but would only use one other cymbal (don't remember which) for short riffs in special places in the song . where he would reach up with one hand and slightly dampen the cymbal and with the other hand tapped a quick fill pattern with the stick .
All in all it sounded pretty good I thought.


I agree the my djembe is a bit much Unless I dampen it and try to just get the lower tones
Beyond that, I have some iron wood sticks , beans ( a big like 16-20 inch long brown string bean looking things from some kind of tropical tree , and also some spoons taped together... I do have one session dedicated to percussion I'll try to upload it to sound cloud or youtube and post it here

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by KevWind

I am by no means a drummer (so take that into consideration)

But here are my thoughts

Drum kit. I played about 8-10 live gigs with a drummer friend of mine. I had my acoustic plugged in.. He playe simpl beats for the most part with some fills .
The kick was fine . He used those Gel dampening thingies to tame the snare and one tom. He did not use the high hats, but would only use one other cymbal (don't remember which) for short riffs in special places in the song . where he would reach up with one hand and slightly dampen the cymbal and with the other hand tapped a quick fill pattern with the stick .
All in all it sounded pretty good I thought.


I agree the my djembe is a bit much Unless I dampen it and try to just get the lower tones
Beyond that, I have some iron wood sticks , beans ( a big like 16-20 inch long brown string bean looking things from some kind of tropical tree , and also some spoons taped together... I do have one session dedicated to percussion I'll try to upload it to sound cloud or youtube and post it here

Plugged in I've done lots of acoustic gigs with a drum kit, I always used these nylon brushes called "Talla Wands" I think. They sounded the best of anything I tried, and I could flip them around and use the handle to get a rim shot, which is something I use quite a bit for more mellow music. I found as long as I didnt hang out on my ride cymbal too long, or just used the bell everything was ok. My particular ride had a tendency for the undertones to build in volume under the brush strokes, like a cymbol roll. You never noticed it playing with sticks, but at low volumes it was terrible. Anyhow, I could do the recordings with a drum kit fairly easily but I'd like to try something else.

So right now I'm trying to get other musicians in on a project based on the premise of creating a sort of stripped down rock band that can play mostly un-amplified... obviously this sounds stupid and nobody wants to do it. I personally feel that between an electric bass, a couple acoustic guitars, and a good percussionist one could make some pretty great music, so the next step for me is to start recording material to show people, rather than just trying to pitch the concept to people that think I'm crazy.

[Bushleague]

I dont think the concept is that creative in basically any other type of music... thats just how its done. This is one of the better examples I've come across, and I think using the same sort of concept with more western music would be interesting.

https://youtu.be/LAXlUVv4jl4

[Feste]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

And lastly, any examples of recorded guitar and percussion music would be muchly appreciated.

I’ve used djembes as well as other acoustic percussion like a guiro on recordings.
Here is one example
There are a few other tracks with percussion on this album as well. Having the right space and mics helps. Good luck figuring this out and be sure to post the results for us to hear

[jim1960]

Even a regular drum kit can be used in a non-traditional way. Originally, there was a typical rhythmic drum track on this song but it never quite felt right to me. In my head I heard something else and decided to use the drums in a sporadic way as an accent instrument.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I dont think the concept is that creative in basically any other type of music... thats just how its done. This is one of the better examples I've come across, and I think using the same sort of concept with more western music would be interesting.

These folks are very creative with acoustic instruments and percussion and move across genre'e easily

From this interesting use of ye'ol' washboard with Goth lookin' gauntlets no less
UNPLUGGED



To this Psychedelic Rock classic IMO better than the original
PLUGGED IN