Help needed -- my pair of AKG C451B is really noisy

[KenW]

Is the room that you are recording in in proximity to a refrigerator? If so, are you turning it off while you record? I don't have the 451's, I have KM184's, and the first thing that I learned is that they pick up EVERYTHING. I never before realized how loud my cats getting a drink of water is. I can see it on the meters in my DAW. Along with the distant trains and the planes landing and taking off at the airport 9 miles to the north of me. Is your computer a tower or a laptop? I use Touch OSC on my iPod as a remote control for Reaper on the laptop to get it's fan away from the mics.

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by ombudsman

I've heard a lot of complaints about that mic being overly bright and harsh. AKG's marketing says that the current 451B capsule has "acoustically identical" performance to the old CK1, but the frequency response plots show otherwise. (It may be that the extra highs in the current model are coming from a fixed EQ built into the amplifier circuit, which could make their statement techically true but practically false without a defeat switch adn since the 451B is not part of a modular system.) The high end boost in the 451B is considerably larger even than the CK1S which was a brighter version of the CK1.

I've got some old CK1/451E and I consider those unusably bright for many sources, so it does not surprise me that the 451B turns some people off.

There's no reason you can't split the difference by putting a smaller presence boost on the track recorded with the AT.

Originally Posted by mjz

My experience with 451B's mirrors this.
We use them when we record darker guitars and want to punch the crispy, brightness. But our studio is designed to handle their propensity to accentuate these frequencies. They are wonderful for cymbals in drum overheads because of this characteristic.

We have also found that when recording wooden guitars, 1/4 inch difference in placement and angle makes a world of difference in how they reproduce the sound of the guitar.

They are great tools in the arsenal, but if the studio has limitations and you are recording without assistance, they may be problematic.

max

I feel slightly incompetent about recording -- but it's good to know I'm not crazy...

Thanks for posting.

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Interesting how differently the mikes pick up the sound of the computer in the background- I assume you used the same mike position for both and mike were pointed more or less directly away from the computer.

Hey Rick,

I can't be sure what sound you are referring to, but I don't think it's my computer. I use my iPad to record and I have a laptop in a different room. There are lots of much noisier devices in the house that the mic isn't catching.

I did several tests last night, including taking the mics to a real studio. I think I'm setting the level too high. Not entirely sure yet but I'll give it another shot today before deciding whether to keep them.

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

The AT3035 is one of the all-time great microphones, but it is handicapped by the fact that it didn't cost a lot, wasn't styled for visual impact, didn't have any magical features like tubes or ribbons, was produced in large volumes, and didn't have a German (or Austrian) name on the label.

Fran

I actually bought mine 10+ years ago because it was the most I could afford. I'm surprised I actually bought a quality mic as I wasn't expecting much.

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

My suspicion is that the differences between the AKG and AT will mostly go away if you do a level-matched test - set the levels to be the same with a test tone. There may be some perceived differences due to the AKG's presence peak, but if you like the way that sounds on your guitar, then it's part of the package. If you can find a mic with less treble response then the noise might seem to be reduced at those frequencies, but then so will your guitar! Of course, you might like the sound, so that's ok,

I think I agree with all of this. Thanks so much for posting your thoughts.

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by myersbw

Just curious...what software are you using to do the actual recording? And, are there some AGC (automatic gain control) settings that might be on? I've also seen some OS settings that use AGC and need to be unchecked (turned off). Your files don't have that typical characteristic, but it's worth checking.

FWIW,
Brad

I use GarageBand for iOS. I don't think there is such a feature.

Thanks for suggesting.

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by KenW

Is the room that you are recording in in proximity to a refrigerator? If so, are you turning it off while you record? I don't have the 451's, I have KM184's, and the first thing that I learned is that they pick up EVERYTHING. I never before realized how loud my cats getting a drink of water is. I can see it on the meters in my DAW. Along with the distant trains and the planes landing and taking off at the airport 9 miles to the north of me. Is your computer a tower or a laptop? I use Touch OSC on my iPod as a remote control for Reaper on the laptop to get it's fan away from the mics.

There's a fridge nearby and I can definitely hear it when it's on.

My computer is a laptop and it's not in the same room and it's turned off most of the time.

I will keep experimenting today. Maybe I'm the one who's not playing loud enough...

[JoeCharter]

I'd like to thank everyone for posting your thoughts. You have been very helpful.

I did a fair bit of experimentation and couldn't get the AKGs to sound anywhere close to what I had in mind so I got rid of them before it was too late.

When I played with authority, the AKGs sounded really nice -- but when played softly I prefer the sound of my AT3035.

So I went out and traded the AKGs for a TLM 103...

[ukejon]

As you know, Mau, my experience has been that the old house I live in doesn't seem to like LDC mics. I've experimented with 8-10 different models. And I've gotten tons of great advice from Doug, Alohachris, and Fran Guidry. They know way more than I do, but my experience has been that the self-noise rating or number is not the issue so much as what an LDC mic hears. I've tried a range of mics in that style and they simply pick up far more hum/rumble/ambience than my SDC mics (Shure KSM 137). When I sit in the room and compare what the mics "hear" the difference is remarkable. The low end noise that I hear on the LDC and that I would need to EQ out is not anywhere near as discernible with the Shure SDCs. Even in the store, when listening to mics and what they pick up in a room I could hear much more sensitivity to low end sounds with the LDC. As a rule, they were noisier--or at least they picked up more noise compared to a good SDC.

In any event, here is a Sound On Sound review of the 103.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun9...s/neumann.html

The author does talk about sensitivity to the type of noise you are hearing and suggests the need for high-pass filtering.

Essentially, the TLM103 has a big, open, natural character, which has a tendency to sound warm and full rather than thin and clinical. It may not be completely accurate, but it is certainly musical and can easily be used to the advantage of the recording. The polar pattern is as accurate as it can be with a large-diaphragm capsule, and provides good front-back rejection combined with clean-sounding off-axis pickup. The mic is prone to mechanical rumbles and wind noise, and these should be tamed by using an appropriate elastic suspension. However, high-pass filtering on your mixer can be used effectively, and although the mic does not incorporate its own switchable filter, the internal amplifier showed no signs of distress from excessive (but deliberately induced) low frequency signals.

[rick-slo]

The TLM 103 is a clean sounding, very quite mike, and has high sensitivity. See how you like it. As far as mono recording with it here is a short, raw, recording I did with it, and below that another recording with a Gefell M295.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Other/Mono/TLM103.mp3

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu.../Mono/M295.mp3

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by ukejon

As you know, Mau, my experience has been that the old house I live in doesn't seem to like LDC mics. I've experimented with 8-10 different models. And I've gotten tons of great advice from Doug, Alohachris, and Fran Guidry. They know way more than I do, but my experience has been that the self-noise rating or number is not the issue so much as what an LDC mic hears. I've tried a range of mics in that style and they simply pick up far more hum/rumble/ambience than my SDC mics (Shure KSM 137). When I sit in the room and compare what the mics "hear" the difference is remarkable. The low end noise that I hear on the LDC and that I would need to EQ out is not anywhere near as discernible with the Shure SDCs. Even in the store, when listening to mics and what they pick up in a room I could hear much more sensitivity to low end sounds with the LDC. As a rule, they were noisier--or at least they picked up more noise compared to a good SDC.

In any event, here is a Sound On Sound review of the 103.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun9...s/neumann.html

The author does talk about sensitivity to the type of noise you are hearing and suggests the need for high-pass filtering.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Jon.

As far as guitar is concerned, I'm self taught and have always ignored rules and conventions. I've read tons of material about whatever is supposed to be right for acoustic guitar and just about every Joe has a different opinion.

My own ears are telling me that mics with a LD like the AT 3035 or the TLM 103 respond in a way that I like. In my environment, I find that I can capture more guitar for less noise.

I bought the TLM 103 because I thought it would complement my AT pretty well for the time being (stereo recording is available in the Show & Tell section). For a bit of extra top edge, I will most likely complement my TLM 103 with a KM 184.

I'm down to earth enough to realize that a nice looking mic with impressive specs isn't going to make it or break it for me. I just happen to like cool toys, especially if they're made in Germany...

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

The TLM 103 is a clean sounding, very quite mike, and has high sensitivity. See how you like it. As far as mono recording with it here is a short, raw, recording I did with it, and below that another recording with a Gefell M295.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Other/Mono/TLM103.mp3

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu.../Mono/M295.mp3

Nice recordings as always, Rick.

Thank you for posting. And thank you for giving me the nudge that I needed to improve the quality of my recordings.

I am keeping the TLM 103. It costs three times as much as my AT 3035, sounds about the same but has a cool logo on the front. Works for me...

I also reached out to one of my guitar heroes for professional advice on recording and mastering. More on that in another thread once we've had time to work things out.

[ukejon]

My own ears are telling me that mics with a LD like the AT 3035 or the TLM 103 respond in a way that I like. In my environment, I find that I can capture more guitar for less noise.

I agree with the appealing notion of capturing more sound and in fact am exploring a spaced-pair setup that combines a 12th fret SDC with a lower bout LDC (Audix SCX25)--the logic, of course, being that the SDC will capture the sparkle in the upper frequencies and the LDC will capture the low end as well as the whole body/sound of the guitar. The Audix, with its capsule suspension system, is advertised as a great mic for placing above piano soundboards--great expanses of wood, often sitka spruce, that in my little pea brain seem analogous to the top of a guitar.

In any event, have fun with the 103 mic.

[bbrown]

Originally Posted by JoeCharter

I also reached out to one of my guitar heroes for professional advice on recording and mastering. More on that in another thread once we've had time to work things out.

Mau, I'm interested to hear about this.

--Bill