Recommendation For Mic to Use with Zoom H2

[ferg]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

ferg, the sound quality is fine, but since all the effects and EQ are in multi-layered menus I don't think you would find it a friendly tool as a live mixer. It works OK for my solo act because I set it and forget it, but in a situation where you're tweaking it would be a pain.

Fran

That was kind of the conclusion I was coming to reading the manuals. On the one hand, I thought I could save the settings and reuse them...just doing EQ tweaks from place to place, but I doubt it will work.

I do think it would work great as a mixer for rehearsals, though, which would allow me to record them...since they're always in the same place, I could set it and leave it.

We'll see. If I were to go down that road, I'd definitely want to use it for gigs, too - which would mean, more than likely, setting up additional mics, but maybe that's not a big deal.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by ferg

That was kind of the conclusion I was coming to reading the manuals. On the one hand, I thought I could save the settings and reuse them...just doing EQ tweaks from place to place, but I doubt it will work.

I do think it would work great as a mixer for rehearsals, though, which would allow me to record them...since they're always in the same place, I could set it and leave it.

We'll see. If I were to go down that road, I'd definitely want to use it for gigs, too - which would mean, more than likely, setting up additional mics, but maybe that's not a big deal.

You can save settings all right, as templates. But I think most live gigs require a bit of tweaking even when you return to the same space.

I bought the thing to use as a multi-track gig recorder, taking pre fader outs from the Mackie we were using. Unfortunately we never got a gig where things worked out, then our lead singer had a massive heart attack and didn't survive.

I would definitely not set up a second set of mics to record the gig, after all, what could they pick up that was different or better than what you're already providing to the audience? The internal mics might actually be useful for capturing some room sound to mix into the direct tracks.

Fran

[ferg]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

I would definitely not set up a second set of mics to record the gig, after all, what could they pick up that was different or better than what you're already providing to the audience? The internal mics might actually be useful for capturing some room sound to mix into the direct tracks.

There are 2 reasons I would setup a second set of mics:

1. There's no way for me to isolate each component of the group (2 vocals, percussion, guitar) to its own track off of the board. The board only has 1 AUX mix I can create.

2. It would be nice to record the guitar with a microphone.

What I though about doing is this:

• Record 1 track that is the main mix from the mixer
• Record 1 Track that is just the vocals from the mixer w/ no effects using the Aux bus
• Setup an additional condenser mic pointed at the guitar that goes directly into the recorder
• Setup and another condenser mic pointed at the percussion that goes directly into the recorder

So, then I'd have 3 isolated no-effects tracks - 1 for vocals, 1 for guitar, 1 for percussion, then the board mix to blend in. I would prefer the vocals to be separated, but really that's not a huge deal, since the relative mix should be about right anyway.

Again, I don't know if I'd goto this trouble, but really all I'm doing is placing 2 extra mics on stage...

[ferg]

Originally Posted by ferg

I was looking around on Vimeo today, and I saw this video:

Lonely Wild - Right Side of the Road

This isn't really a gig situation, but it IS a live video, and it's fantastic. The video was shot in 2 takes using a Canon T2i, which I actually now have in my possession. I'm not fooling myself on the video end - I have much to learn (and I know you're not really into the video side of things, Chris), but, according to the creator of this clip, the audio is recorded live. This is what I know, or have gleaned from the creator's website:

Video is shot in 2 takes - the first take is done with the camera in fixed position, and the audio is shot using an "audio recorder". During the second take, the audio is played back, and they play along. So, the wide, fixed shots are from the first take - the one where the audio is recorded. The closeups, etc, etc, are done during the second take then edited in.

Now, this isn't really about video, but I know enough about video editing to manage the 2 take thing, if I wanted to, but that's not really my concern...what I'm wondering is - how the heck does the audio sound so good?

I mean - you don't see any mics in the shot? Where are they? I sent an email to him, and I'll post back here if I get a response. He is a pro, and may not be willing to share his secrets, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. While I'm certain he's using equipment beyond what I have right now (though, who knows - we do have the same camera).

OKAY...

For those interested, the creator of this video clip, Logan Grime, graciously responded to my query, and explained his recording technique.

As I had guessed, he shot 2 takes with the camera - during the first, the camera was in a fixed location, and the audio was recorded along with the first take.

During the second take, the band played along with the audio from the first take, and he moved around with the camera, taking closeups, etc, and then just edited the two clips together. I'm not sure how much experience you folks have with the editing side of things, but this is actually a pretty simple task. I think he deserves a lot of credit for coming up with this approach, because, as simple as it is - the results seem very professional to me, at least in the pantheon of youtube clips, etc, etc.

But here's the deal with the audio:

It was recorded using an H4n placed on the ground near the band pointing up, and no processing was done after the fact. What you're hearing in that clip is what the H4n captured using the internal mikes.

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

[BoB/335]

Great update!!!

[ferg]

Yeah, Bob - it's exciting news...

Here's another nugget:

I have a good friend who works doing sound in the film industry. He's spent years doing both production/location sound and post-production sound. I originally had sent him a link to that video, saying: okay, buddy - how did he do it? (expressing amazement over the sound), his response was, "Have you ever done any outdoor recording?"

Hmmm. No, I haven't. It actually wouldn't have ever occurred to me to do so, and, even if it had, I probably would have shrugged it off based on wind noise, and just the general lack of silence out there. He told me that it's a lot easier to get good results outdoors than in indoor, non-studio spaces. In all but the heaviest winds, a windscreen eliminates that concern, and other distant noises, since they don't reverberate around the room (since there is no room), are not the concern you might think they'd be.

Regardless of the theoretical reasons for it - the proof, as they say, is in the pudding...

[ferg]

For anyone following this thread - I finally got out back with the T2i and H4n today...this is the result:

http://vimeo.com/18552064

Unfortunately, I am out of focus on the "main" shot (the wide shot that was the shot during which the audio was recorded). I couldn't be behind the camera and in front at the same time (I have future shoots scheduled with my bandmate which my wife has agreed to shoot). Overall, I'm happy with the result, but I have some experimenting to do with both video and mic placement.

I recorded the audio during the first (wide) take with a Zoom H4n...I recorded using both the internal mics and a pair of R0de NT-3s...you can see one of the R0des on the side of the main shot. The other one was above pointed roughly at my face. I had the H4n itself on the ground pointed up toward me at an angle about 5 feet away. I wasn't happy with the audio from that recording, so what you hear in the video is just from the R0des.

[starr]

Hi Ferg,
So you ended up getting the H4n? Did you use the 2 inputs on the H4n for the Rode mics? I thought your video came out well.
-Brian

[ferg]

Originally Posted by starr

Hi Ferg,
So you ended up getting the H4n? Did you use the 2 inputs on the H4n for the Rode mics? I thought your video came out well.
-Brian

Brian,

Yeah - I came to the conclusion that if I need to do any true multitracking, I can just use my laptop. This was prompted by the fact that, in cleaning out my closet, I happened upon my presonus firebox (I had sold it on eBay a couple of years ago, but it was returned to me, and I had forgotten I still had it), which can do up to 6 simultaneous tracks, which is more than I would need for that. Granted - the whole laptop thing with the firebox is not nearly as portable as the R16, but I figured that the multitracking was really a secondary consideration.

Also, I made an offer on eBay on a new H4n that I thought would get rejected, and it wasn't - so it was cheaper than I expected. I had 1 Rode NT-3, and I found a used 2nd one. I figured these were the ideal companions to the H4n, as they have battery power. I know that the H4n has phantom power, but Fran's research indicates to me that there's more noise involved when using phantom power.

I'm very happy with the sound - most of the stuff I need to work out at this point has to do with the way I'm shooting, syncing and editing. I still, to this point, have not been able to get satisfactory results recording with the built-in mics of either the H4n OR the H2 - I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I find that the only way I get a decent sound is if it is really close. I had those Rode mics 5 feet or so away, and they sound great (IMO). The H4n was at a different angle, but about the same distance. If I get a chance, I'll post the audio from that here as well.

One thing I realize, as far as video technique goes is that I think it makes more sense to record the audio along with the closeup shots rather than the wide shot...but really to do this, I need 2 takes, not 3 (which means I need a videographer). I just think my lipsyncing is more noticeably off on the closeups than it would be if the closeups were of the actual performance, and the wide shot was lipsynced. Then there's the focus issues, etc, etc...all stuff I need to work on.