Enlarge bridge-pin slots?

[phcorrigan]

My Martin HD-28V has slotted bridge pin holes and un-slotted pins. I'm using strings that have slightly heavier ball-end windings than my previous strings, and one of the bridge pins doesn't fully seat, even though the ball-end is fully seated at the bridge plate.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't slightly enlarge the slot to accommodate this string?

[Glen H]

I use a 1/16 or sometimes slightly larger drill bit in a rechargeable drill. Move it up and down with very slight pressure (or you’ll break the bit). And use a sharp bit.

[Brucebubs]

Why not just use a slotted pin with enough room for the end binding for that string?

[Shuksan]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Why not just use a slotted pin with enough room for the end binding for that string?

Because slotted pins are inferior to unslotted pins. Unslotted pins in combination with slotted bridge pin holes trap the ball ends fully on the bridge plate which prevents damage to the bridge plate and extends its life.

It's not hard to enlarge the slots in the bridge pin holes to accommodate heavier gauge strings.

[Dave Abrahamson]

I second slotted pins��

[redir]

I see no reason why you cannot enlarge the slot as you mention. I slot my ramps to the the same size. After all it's the ball end that needs to be seated and the ball is the same size on the low E-String as it is on the high.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by Shuksan

Because slotted pins are inferior to unslotted pins. Unslotted pins in combination with slotted bridge pin holes trap the ball ends fully on the bridge plate which prevents damage to the bridge plate and extends its life.

It's not hard to enlarge the slots in the bridge pin holes to accommodate heavier gauge strings.

There are some who will agree with you ... and some who won't.

For example, Collings and Bourgeois use slotted bridges and solid pins.

SCGC and Goodall use both, slotted bridges with slotted pins.

Huss & Dalton and Froggy Bottom on the other hand use slotted pins and slotting their bridges will void the warranty!

[Shuksan]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

There are some who will agree with you ... and some who won't.

For example, Collings and Bourgeois use slotted bridges and solid pins.

SCGC and Goodall use both, slotted bridges with slotted pins.

Huss & Dalton and Froggy Bottom on the other hand use slotted pins and slotting their bridges will void the warranty!

True, but as the OP pointed out, his HD-28V has slotted bridge pin holes and unslotted pins. Martin saw fit to go with that for that guitar so it just makes sense to stick with it.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by Shuksan

True, but as the OP pointed out, his HD-28V has slotted bridge pin holes and unslotted pins. Martin saw fit to go with that for that guitar so it just makes sense to stick with it.

True and maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I thought the OP was describing the problem he was having using a string with a thicker end winding compared with his usual strings? In which case just using a slotted pin might be a quick fix.

If the OP decides to stay with those 'thicker' strings then there's a choice, stay with the odd slotted pin or indeed, widen the existing bridge slot.

I know which one I'd do.

[Shuksan]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

True and maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I thought the OP was describing the problem he was having using a string with a thicker end winding compared with his usual strings? In which case just using a slotted pin might be a quick fix.

If the OP decides to stay with those 'thicker' strings then there's a choice, stay with the odd slotted pin or indeed, widen the existing bridge slot.

I know which one I'd do.

I agree with your point that a slotted pin might work as an expedient fix, depending on how poor the fit of the heavier ball end windings is with the existing bridge slot. If the heavier windings simply don't fit into the slot, then a slotted pin may not help. In any case, for a long term fix, having just one slotted pin would be kludgey, IMO.

[lar]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

There are some who will agree with you ... and some who won't.

For example, Collings and Bourgeois use slotted bridges and solid pins.

SCGC and Goodall use both, slotted bridges with slotted pins.

Huss & Dalton and Froggy Bottom on the other hand use slotted pins and slotting their bridges will void the warranty!

That's interesting that H&D and FB use slotted pins, which I consider inferior due to less bearing area on the bridge - leading to (very) long term damage of the bridge plate. Oh well, maybe they know what they are doing. Or not. Ditto for me.

Then I started researching the issue and found out there is a 3rd option that SC guitar uses. Half-slots on both the pin and bridge. Wouldn't you know it - Richard always does things differently, even if you don't agree with him. Here is what he says:

"Efficiency of string energy to sound is determined by the degree of contact and the resonance of the material the string contacts. Assuming the bridge pin material doesn’t absorb energy the connection between string, pin and bridge will determine how well the vibration will transfer from string, to top to ear. Without a slot to encircle the string we’d allow an airspace that would compromise the transfer. Likewise if we only slotted the pin, OR the bridge, the unslotted component would not make total contact. The most complete contact is achieved by slotting each, pin and bridge with half the diameter of the string. If this is done to insure the string is encircled for the whole of its diameter, the most efficient transfer can be achieved."

So why does SC use more than 1 method? For originality of vintage guitars and vintage designs, they use what was done originally.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by lar

"The most complete contact is achieved by slotting each, pin and bridge with half the diameter of the string. If this is done to insure the string is encircled for the whole of its diameter, the most efficient transfer can be achieved."

I'm not sure I buy it. Contact is going to vary based on the thickness of the strings. As far as I know, there are three primary contact points between the string and the bridge: The ball-end contact at the pin and the bottom of the bridge plate, the contact with the bridge where the string exits the peg hole and bends toward the saddle, and the contact at the saddle. The diameter of the string wraps at the ball-end can vary widely between different strings, so unless you can redo the bridge slot and pin for each individual string each time you change strings your not going to "encircle," or make contact with, the entire length of the portion of the string that resides within the bridge slot.

It probably works just as well as the other methods, however.

Can someone please point out the faults in my logic here?

[Taylor Ham]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

I'm not sure I buy it. Contact is going to vary based on the thickness of the strings. As far as I know, there are three primary contact points between the string and the bridge: The ball-end contact at the pin and the bottom of the bridge plate, the contact with the bridge where the string exits the peg hole and bends toward the saddle, and the contact at the saddle. The diameter of the string wraps at the ball-end can vary widely between different strings, so unless you can redo the bridge slot and pin for each individual string each time you change strings your not going to "encircle," or make contact with, the entire length of the portion of the string that resides within the bridge slot.



It probably works just as well as the other methods, however.



Can someone please point out the faults in my logic here?

I don't see an issue with very slightly slotting the pin to accomodate a thicker winding or slightly enlarging the bridge slot. Key word being very slight. You might want to take a closer look at the issue just to be sure, before you modify the guitar (harder to fix and non disposable) or the pin ( easier to fix by disposing and replacing).

I also find some of SCGC's claims dubious, it just happens that they build very fine guitars even when operating under those assumptions no matter how accurate they turn out to be.

[redir]

Think about all the airspace around the strings that are tied to a classical guitar tie block... My stars! No wonder they all sound dull and thuddy compared to steel string guitars

[John Arnold]

The slots need to fit the strings closely, but not necessarily for sound. It is critical for preventing bridgeplate wear.
Unslotted pins are superior, for several reasons.