Varnish Finish (Waterloo)

[A.Wilder1]

I’ve been meaning to pose this question since I took delivery of a 2017 Waterloo WL-S Deluxe last month but thought maybe I could find the answer using the search function here… unfortunately there was nothing I could locate.

I’ve come to know the finish on these guitars as a ‘hand rubbed varnish’ but Collings officially calls it a ‘toned, semi-gloss nitrocellulose lacquer finish’… so ultimately I am a little confused.

Nonetheless can anyone advise me on the dos and donts with these kinds of finishes? I typically wipe down with a cotton cloth slightly dampened with warm water and once or twice a year use StewMacs ColorTone Clean + Shine.

Does anyone have any experience they could share?

[runamuck]

Whether it's varnish or lacquer it sounds to me that what you're doing is just fine.

[printer2]

Do not see enough cherry guitars, like it.

[A.Wilder1]

Thanks runamuck and printer2, the deluxe is very easy on the eyes!

I’m a big fan of both the cherry and maple in the Waterloo lineup!

Regarding the varnish finish, I want to learn more about it in general and any sage maintenance tips. Thanks!

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by A.Wilder1

Thanks runamuck and printer2, the deluxe is very easy on the eyes!

I’m a big fan of both the cherry and maple in the Waterloo lineup!

Regarding the varnish finish, I want to learn more about it in general and any sage maintenance tips. Thanks!

A warm damp rag is all you usually need. If there's buildup from grime, a drop of dish detergent will break it down followed by a clean water rinse and then thoroughly drying it off.

There are various cleaners made but water is almost always the best solvent.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by A.Wilder1

Regarding the varnish finish, I want to learn more about it in general and any sage maintenance tips. Thanks!

Nitrocellulose is lacquer, varnish is traditionally a shellac based product. Nitro is sprayed and unlikely hand rubbed in a production shop and is probably more durable than a shellac based varnish which could be damaged by alcohol.

Damp with water is probably fine, is there a recommendation from the manufacturer.

[A.Wilder1]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Reassuring to know that it likely won’t behave all that differently.

Fathand, your probably right and I should contact Collings!

[redir]

Wow! What a lovely guitar. What ever it is you are doing is working just fine. I still have a few bottles of Stew Mac 'Preservation Polish' finish. I have no idea why they stopped making that as it's been my go to for many years. If the stuff you are talking about is the same or at least similar then it's good stuff.

[sinistral]

I have the same guitar and checked the case to see if there were any care instructions. The Warranty & Care card only has one sentence relating to the care of the finish: “Please note that the finish on Waterloo guitars should not be buffed or polished, though gently wiping the surface with with a dry micro-fiber cloth can remove fingerprints.”

This 2017 review of the WL-S and WL-S Deluxe says: “Then there’s a subtle, but key, difference between the guitars: The WL-S has a satin nitrocellulose lacquer finish, but the deluxe version boasts a hand-polished varnish—a finish type, not commonly seen on production instruments, that lends a gorgeous patina and feels luxuriously smooth.” When I google “waterloo wl-s deluxe,” the search result for the guitar on Collings’ website says: “The Waterloo Guitars WL-S Deluxe is a vintage-inspired 12-fret ladder-braced acoustic guitar with a hand-rubbed varnish finish and deluxe appointments,” but those words are no longer on the website. That blurb must be cached somewhere.

If you use a cleaner or polish on the finish, I would use it very sparingly. It’s definitely worth contacting Collings to get their input.

Another thing in the case is a card that says, “ATTENTION: This instrument contains CITES (wood) material that is illegal to export without proper permits and clearance through USDA/APHIS.” The card doesn’t say which parts are restricted. If you contact Collings, you might want to ask them about that, too, out of curiosity if nothing else.

[Rockysdad]

This may help, Care section on their website

https://www.collingsguitars.com/care/

[Bruce Sexauer]

Varnish based on alcohol is usually called “spirit varnish”, and is common in the modern violin world, but extremely rare in the guitar world. I have never seen it. Its relative, “french polish”, is common in the traditional classical guitar world, but holds up poorly to casual handling and is difficult to produce economically in production. A big difference between the two is that “spirit varnish” can be sprayed, while “French polish” is applied by hand.

In the steel string guitar world, “varnish” more commonly means traditional oil varnish, which uses turpentine as its solvent rather than alcohol. This is the class of finish that I use on my work, and Collings is known to have offered it as an option for a few years as well. “Oil Varnish” requires vastly more time to accomplish professional results than other common guitar finishes, between 5x and 15x the hours, and adds considerably to the end cost of the instrument.

A third type is “conversion varnish” which is misnamed from my POV. It is a thin catalyzed spray finish which is common in the cabinet making world. It bears no relationship with spirit or oil varnish, being a modern industrial coating.

If I understand correctly, Waterloo is is a less expensive Collings line, and it surprises me to hear that there is any form of “varnish” finish on any of them. The word “varnish” can technically be used to describe any clear finish, but is misleading in todays vocabulary unless it is applied to the two traditional forms I have mentioned.

Despite the added time, oil varnish is used because it produces superior results as far as tone and acoustic performance are concerned, which some of believe is worth any kind of trouble.

[redir]

I would not be surprised if it is some sort of wipe on poly which makes a perfectly good thin finish as far as I can tell. And as Bruce mentioned the term 'varnish' to most people just means 'finish' regardless of the material or the technique used to apply it.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

In the steel string guitar world, “varnish” more commonly means traditional oil varnish, which uses turpentine as its solvent rather than alcohol. This is the class of finish that I use on my work, and Collings is known to have offered it as an option for a few years as well. “Oil Varnish” requires vastly more time to accomplish professional results than other common guitar finishes, between 5x and 15x the hours, and adds considerably to the end cost of the instrument.

Despite the added time, oil varnish is used because it produces superior results as far as tone and acoustic performance are concerned, which some of believe is worth any kind of trouble.

Is Tru Oil related or similar to Oil Varnish?

[redir]

I think Tru-Oil falls under the category of a varnish as from what I understand it is 'solvent reactive.' Shellac is 'solvent evaporative' if there is such a word. You dissolve hard glassy shellac flakes in alcohol and when you paint it on thin the alcohol dries going back to its original state. Where as an oil varnish is made of of oil and resin and is chemically hardened in the presence of Oxygen.

But again there is that mysterious use of the word varnish again. According to that definition polyurethane would be an oil varnish but most wood working veterans would probably scoff at that idea.

[A.Wilder1]

Well my question has definitely created some discussion with seemingly no definitive answer for the WL-S.

Sinistral, you are absolutely right and thanks for pointing that out! They have changed the description on waterlooguitars.com and if you check Folkway Musics description of the finish they refer to it as ‘finished with a hand-rubbed varnish’. Interesting.

I really appreciate everyone’s thoughts on this and I will reach out to Joe Bastura shortly to see what Collings says about it, and to confirm if it is the Oil Varnish Bruce speaks of or not… I will report back.