Common problem but I have not found a solution - B string rattle

[beninma]

Originally Posted by robj144

Why would it be just the B string? There are the same notes on all strings. If it was a resonant frequency problem, you would have a problem on all the strings for one note.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense.

At least when I've noticed this effect it was always the open B string and you had to pick it quite hard.

Maybe it has to do with an open string + the right frequency. The Open string vibrates with more energy? Or when you fret another string at the same tone your finger is providing some kind of damping of this resonance effect?

[stormin1155]

Originally Posted by robj144

Why would it be just the B string? There are the same notes on all strings. If it was a resonant frequency problem, you would have a problem on all the strings for one note.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense.

No, it doesn't make a lot of sense, which is probably why no one has been able to solve the problem. With some guitars I've worked on I've been able to produce a similar ping/rattle on other strings, but it isn't the same, and usually not as loud. Even though you can play the same note on different strings, it doesn't sound the same. E played on the 9th fret of the G string sounds different than E played on the 5th fret of the B string or open e string. Acoustic guitars have complex overtones with each note, so when you play a note, it isn't a pure tone. That is one of the characteristics of an acoustic guitar that makes it sound good, but comes at the cost of issues like this.

I think if you listen carefully you will be able to find these UANs on any guitar to some extent or another, which is essentially what the Taylor tech was saying. On my Martin D-41, D# (B string, 4th fret) has an ever so slight edge... a tiny bit of ringing, that isn't there with D or E, or any other fretted note on the B string. It is slight enough that you really don't notice it with normal playing, but it's there if you listen closely for it. Pick attack or how I hold the pick changes it, and with some picking technique you don't hear it at all. I suspect if I changed strings, saddle material, or any number of other variables, that slight edginess could change as well.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by robj144

Why would it be just the B string? There are the same notes on all strings. If it was a resonant frequency problem, you would have a problem on all the strings for one note.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Good point. I owned an OM-21 with a very pronounced G-note resonance (wolf note) which made its un-musical presence felt on every G played. I didn't keep it long.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by stormin1155

All guitars have a resonate frequency where they will make some unwanted noise.... whether it is a $200 guitar or a $2000 guitar, and the B string is the most common culprit.

That hasn't been my experience.

[Sonics]

I've encountered this issue before. Loosening the truss rod cured it.

[Russ C]

Originally Posted by jbeecham

The luthier did adjust the frets - he had me look away as he took a hammer to one of the frets . I am going to take it back to him but I would like to figure out what the problem is.

I appreciate all the input!

jerry

Sometimes when a fret "needs a hammer" it doesn't stay put - it's tang isn't gripping in the slot and it needs to be glued in (or replaced and possibly glued depending on the condition of the slot).

[jspe]

Try the truss rod first...a little bit either way might do it. Also...have you tried upsizing that string? Try a 13 if the trouble is with a 12. It also might be just a bit low at the saddle.

[jbeecham]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am taking it to the luthier Monday. I will let you know what happens.

Jerry

[Silly Moustache]

From timer to time I get this issue on all my guitars. I've tried to fix it , taken it to my tech, etc.

Here's my solution : Leave it alone, warm it up, or cool it down, Humidify it, or dry it out, or simply play another guitar for a day or two.

It goes away ... or comes back.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by stormin1155

No, it doesn't make a lot of sense, which is probably why no one has been able to solve the problem. With some guitars I've worked on I've been able to produce a similar ping/rattle on other strings, but it isn't the same, and usually not as loud. Even though you can play the same note on different strings, it doesn't sound the same. E played on the 9th fret of the G string sounds different than E played on the 5th fret of the B string or open e string. Acoustic guitars have complex overtones with each note, so when you play a note, it isn't a pure tone. That is one of the characteristics of an acoustic guitar that makes it sound good, but comes at the cost of issues like this.

I think if you listen carefully you will be able to find these UANs on any guitar to some extent or another, which is essentially what the Taylor tech was saying. On my Martin D-41, D# (B string, 4th fret) has an ever so slight edge... a tiny bit of ringing, that isn't there with D or E, or any other fretted note on the B string. It is slight enough that you really don't notice it with normal playing, but it's there if you listen closely for it. Pick attack or how I hold the pick changes it, and with some picking technique you don't hear it at all. I suspect if I changed strings, saddle material, or any number of other variables, that slight edginess could change as well.

What is a UAN?

It doesn't matter if sounds different. If the buzzing is caused by a resonant frequency, whenever you play that frequency, whether it's the fundamental frequency or harmonic, it should be reproducible on any string with that frequency if it was a resonant frequency problem.

[Pillendreher]

I too have a weird high pitched rattling on my b-string. Took it to Thomann's repair shop while shopping for a new guitar and the tech told me that it was most likely the neck since the frets were all OK. As far as I could follow him, the b string is "buzzing" because the neck is just a tiny bit "uneven".

[stormin1155]

Originally Posted by robj144

What is a UAN?

It doesn't matter if sounds different. If the buzzing is caused by a resonant frequency, whenever you play that frequency, whether it's the fundamental frequency or harmonic, it should be reproducible on any string with that frequency if it was a resonant frequency problem.

Unidentified Annoying Noise.... I defined it in my earlier post.

Not necessarily. When you play note, it's not a pure tone or frequency. There are resonances and overtones. A note played on an open string sounds different than the same note on a fretted string.... D# played on the 4th fret of the B string sounds different than D# played on the 8th fret of the G string. A resonate frequency may or may not react differently to those differences. And that has been my experience. Sometimes the buzz/ping/rattle can be reproduced on a different string, sometimes not.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by stormin1155

Unidentified Annoying Noise.... I defined it in my earlier post.

Not necessarily. When you play note, it's not a pure tone or frequency. There are resonances and overtones. A note played on an open string sounds different than the same note on a fretted string.... D# played on the 4th fret of the B string sounds different than D# played on the 8th fret of the G string. A resonate frequency may or may not react differently to those differences. And that has been my experience. Sometimes the buzz/ping/rattle can be reproduced on a different string, sometimes not.

Got you on the UAN.

But, I don't think it can be defined as a resonant problem, if it's not reproduced by other strings. It's something else.

[Bridgepin]

Originally Posted by jbeecham

I have been searching for a fix or suggestions. I have a 12 fret D-18. The B string (2) buzzes or rattles at frets 2-5. It is clear at the other frets. None of the other strings are buzzing. I changed the string so that is eliminated as the source. I took it to a luthier a while back but the problem persists. It makes me wonder why the B string is so problematic?

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
Jerry

HUMIDITY, what is the relative humidity were you keep your guitars? This is absolutely were I would start.

[jbeecham]

And the problem was ........ a tiny groove on the second and third frets. Funny, it was not easy to see looking down from the bass strings but was obvious from the other direction and with a good light. Ross Teigen dressed the frets. With new strings, it sounds better than ever.

Thanks again for all the help!

jerry