Common problem but I have not found a solution - B string rattle

jbeecham · #1 10-08-2019, 11:11 AM

I have been searching for a fix or suggestions. I have a 12 fret D-18. The B string (2) buzzes or rattles at frets 2-5. It is clear at the other frets. None of the other strings are buzzing. I changed the string so that is eliminated as the source. I took it to a luthier a while back but the problem persists. It makes me wonder why the B string is so problematic?

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
Jerry

AndrewG · #2 10-08-2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbeecham

I have been searching for a fix or suggestions. I have a 12 fret D-18. The B string (2) buzzes or rattles at frets 2-5. It is clear at the other frets. None of the other strings are buzzing. I changed the string so that is eliminated as the source. I took it to a luthier a while back but the problem persists. It makes me wonder why the B string is so problematic?

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
Jerry

It could be a high fret. What did the luthier think; did you demonstrate the problem to him?

jseth · #3 10-08-2019, 11:28 AM

I had a similar issue with my Mark Angus F-40... predominately around the fifth fret, but as high as the 8th.

First thing is to be sure the truss rod is adjusted correctly (I would assume your tech did that?)... curiously, too much relief or too little can cause fret rattle or buzz.

If that's all good, then the next thing would be to assure the frets are level; sometimes all it takes is a bit of tapping on the fretwire to seat it into place.

In the end, my tech had to use super glue around the fret wire and seat the frets firmly with a plastic mallet... seems a lot of work, but it corrected the problem!

Good luck finding your solution... it's an annoying problem, especially on a great guitar that has not had the issue previously.

jonfields45 · #4 10-08-2019, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbeecham

I have been searching for a fix or suggestions. I have a 12 fret D-18. The B string (2) buzzes or rattles at frets 2-5. It is clear at the other frets. None of the other strings are buzzing. I changed the string so that is eliminated as the source. I took it to a luthier a while back but the problem persists. It makes me wonder why the B string is so problematic?

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
Jerry

If you fret the B-string at the first fret and 12th fret there should be 5-10 mils of clearance at the 6th fret. If there is no clearance the truss rod is too tight.

Next I would try raising the B string action at the nut with a bit of thin cardboard to see if that cures the problem. If it does, then the string is hitting the frets between the nut and where you are fretting. You can raise the string at the nut with some cyanoacrylate glue and baking soda or let a tech do it.

If you've still got a problem I would repeat the same cardboard thing at the bridge. If that cures it consider putting a shim under the saddle (if it is a short saddle). If not, off to a luthier.

jbeecham · #5 10-08-2019, 04:43 PM

Thanks Jon, I will give it a try.

Jerry

Guitarplayer_PR · #6 10-08-2019, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbeecham

I have been searching for a fix or suggestions. I have a 12 fret D-18. The B string (2) buzzes or rattles at frets 2-5. It is clear at the other frets. None of the other strings are buzzing. I changed the string so that is eliminated as the source. I took it to a luthier a while back but the problem persists. It makes me wonder why the B string is so problematic?

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
Jerry

What did the luthier tell you about the problem?

Russ C · #7 10-08-2019, 11:10 PM

Sure sounds like a high 6th fret, or a dip at 2-5 but that's less likely.
If it's the 6th fret that's causing it you'd be able to see it sighting along the fretboard.
Either way, without being able to see it in the flesh, I predict a fret dress is a probable solution.
Didn't the luthier do that?

jbeecham · #8 10-09-2019, 04:35 AM

The luthier did adjust the frets - he had me look away as he took a hammer to one of the frets

. I am going to take it back to him but I would like to figure out what the problem is.

I appreciate all the input!

jerry

ChrisE · #9 10-09-2019, 06:22 AM

I was testing out/borrowing a guitar from a forum member a few months ago and it had a mysterious rattle. It only did on certain frets and I couldn't figure out where it was coming from.

I tightened all the tuner screws and that didn't help. I changed strings and that didn't help.

I finally isolated the problem--one of the plastic tuner buttons was loose! I just pushed it back on to the post and "click" it was back in place and the rattle was gone.

PaulieDC · #10 10-09-2019, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbeecham

The luthier did adjust the frets - he had me look away as he took a hammer to one of the frets

. I am going to take it back to him but I would like to figure out what the problem is.

I appreciate all the input!

jerry

If he let you walk out the first time and the problem is still there, I'd find a different luthier.

elmcmeen · #11 10-09-2019, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbeecham

I have been searching for a fix or suggestions. I have a 12 fret D-18. The B string (2) buzzes or rattles at frets 2-5. It is clear at the other frets. None of the other strings are buzzing. I changed the string so that is eliminated as the source. I took it to a luthier a while back but the problem persists. It makes me wonder why the B string is so problematic?

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
Jerry

This is a longshot, but once I had a vibration, and it was a loose part of one of the tuners at the top of the guitar. I tightened it and the problem went away.

BrunoBlack · #12 10-09-2019, 01:02 PM

Sounds like high frets, but if you are using light gauge strings, try mediums on the high E and B strings. I know it might not seem logical, but a very similar thing happened to me a while back and this fixed things.

stormin1155 · #13 10-09-2019, 02:42 PM

I'm a luthier/tech with my own shop, and I run into these UANs (unidentified annoying noises) from time to time. Here is what happened with my most recent UAN, just a couple weeks ago.

An out-of-town customer (Steve) dropped off his Taylor 210CE, complaining of buzzes. Since he was from some distance away, we made arrangements that I would work on it while he ran some errands, saving him another trip to pick it up.

The main buzz was with the B string on the 4th and 5th frets. I did a normal setup, which would normally eliminate most problems. That reduced the buzz, but it persisted. I checked relief, string height, frets for high/low/loose, nut, saddle, bridge pins, tuners, inside braces, changed strings.....

When Steve returned from his errands, we worked on it for another hour. When I played it, the buzzes were barely noticeable, but his playing style seemed to bring them out. The sound was more of a ping than a buzz, and it seemed to come more from the bridge area, occurring when the B string was fretted at the 4th and 5th fret. It was getting late, and we finally concluded that I wasn't going to be able to do much more. He left, a bit frustrated, but happy that at least it wasn't as bad as before.

The next day he called Taylor to see if they could help. The Taylor tech went through a fairly extensive "try this" list, all of which we had already tried. Steve jokingly said that he was strongly considering trading it in on a Martin. The tech replied that he would likely run into the same problem. All guitars have a resonate frequency where they will make some unwanted noise.... whether it is a $200 guitar or a $2000 guitar, and the B string is the most common culprit.

So there you have it folks..... Straight from Taylor, which probably invests more in research and design than any other company, and they can't build a guitar that is free of these UANs.

beninma · #14 10-09-2019, 02:54 PM

Interesting thread.

AFAICT my Taylor exhibits this on the B string if you pick it hard enough... there is definitely something about the B string here, what the guy got as a response from Taylor makes some sense.

I have heard about it from other people IRL as well.

It doesn't bother me unless I look for it.

robj144 · #15 10-09-2019, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormin1155

I'm a luthier/tech with my own shop, and I run into these UANs (unidentified annoying noises) from time to time. Here is what happened with my most recent UAN, just a couple weeks ago.

An out-of-town customer (Steve) dropped off his Taylor 210CE, complaining of buzzes. Since he was from some distance away, we made arrangements that I would work on it while he ran some errands, saving him another trip to pick it up.

The main buzz was with the B string on the 4th and 5th frets. I did a normal setup, which would normally eliminate most problems. That reduced the buzz, but it persisted. I checked relief, string height, frets for high/low/loose, nut, saddle, bridge pins, tuners, inside braces, changed strings.....

When Steve returned from his errands, we worked on it for another hour. When I played it, the buzzes were barely noticeable, but his playing style seemed to bring them out. The sound was more of a ping than a buzz, and it seemed to come more from the bridge area, occurring when the B string was fretted at the 4th and 5th fret. It was getting late, and we finally concluded that I wasn't going to be able to do much more. He left, a bit frustrated, but happy that at least it wasn't as bad as before.

The next day he called Taylor to see if they could help. The Taylor tech went through a fairly extensive "try this" list, all of which we had already tried. Steve jokingly said that he was strongly considering trading it in on a Martin. The tech replied that he would likely run into the same problem. All guitars have a resonate frequency where they will make some unwanted noise.... whether it is a $200 guitar or a $2000 guitar, and the B string is the most common culprit.

So there you have it folks..... Straight from Taylor, which probably invests more in research and design than any other company, and they can't build a guitar that is free of these UANs.

Why would it be just the B string? There are the same notes on all strings. If it was a resonant frequency problem, you would have a problem on all the strings for one note.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense.