Suggestions for a good budget Condenser Mic for basic home recording.

[fitness1]

Love my X1S - for those worried about self noise - it's 9 db

You can get them used for the OP's price point pretty readily.

https://www.seelectronics.com/se-x1s-microphone

I also have the original X1 and an SE7 SDC. All built well and sound great.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by TBman

None of my Google searches finds the self noise of the Samsung C01, even the Samsung manual doesn't. Odd.

So now I see the self noise of the NT1 is less than half of my at2035. Make it stop, lol.

Ty would know best, but I suspect that specs on low end imported mics should be taken with a significant grain of salt.

I've also found by experience that not all noise is created equal. I had a pair of not-cheap mics years ago that had an especially grainy type of noise that really stuck out, even tho the specs weren't that bad. Worse, one mic of the "matched" pair, was substantially noisier than the other, which made the noise stick out badly on a stereo recording. If the noise was balanced, I think it would be easier to subliminally ignore, but with this, anyone who listened to a track immediately asked "what's up with that left channel?".

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by TBman

None of my Google searches finds the self noise of the Samsung C01, even the Samsung
manual doesn't. Odd.

So now I see the self noise of the NT1 is less than half of my at2035. Make it stop, lol.

On the noise factor on the C01 Samson LDC , I tried finding years ago to and recall it to be around
maybe .5% but I can't be certain .

.5% is not a great rate signal to noise ratio but , in my dealing(s) with this mic over the years
I've had it I can't hear a noticeable .5% even when I cranked up the gain wide open through
my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 .


I can hear 1% noise too , .5% is thinner and harder to notice , my ears aren't young
but they still work fine when tracking/editing with headphones with the 6i6's
headphone amp X2 .

EZ :

HR

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Hurricane Ramon

On the noise factor on the C01 Samson LDC , I tried finding years ago to and recall it to be around
maybe .5% but I can't be certain .

.5% is not a great rate signal to noise ratio but , in my dealing(s) with this mic over the years
I've had it I can't hear a noticeable .5% even when I cranked up the gain wide open through
my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 .


I can hear 1% noise too , .5% is thinner and harder to notice , my ears aren't young
but they still work fine when tracking/editing with headphones with the 6i6's
headphone amp X2 .

EZ :

HR

Not that there aren't any, but I've never heard of a mic with published specs that say anything in a percentage - .5%. It's always in dB, as far as I know. So it's possible that the Samson has 5dB of self noise but I'm skeptical of that considering its' cost.

BTW, back a few posts I mentioned that I've lost a bit of high frequency sensitivity. From what I've read, that's something that occurs to virtually all male as we age.

[Ty Ford]

Exactly! Aaaaaaah, Make it stop. The best mic for the job is the mic you already have.

And, Doug Young (per usual) is right on so many points. If you do a side by side, the mics absolutely have to be level matched. If not, the louder one wins. Usually the brighter one wins. Youtube also changes things, so you have that as well.

A lot of the Chinese mics that have come out over the last 10 years have been edgy, even though they have relatively low selfnoise. They are quieter but skritch on the top end. Don't know why. That's seeming to change. I often wonder if it was a simple lack of communication between the US sellers and the Chinese makers.

The MXL, MCA SP-1 LD cardioid condenser doesn't seem to have that and for less than a SM58, why would not buy one?

I heard that they modified the body, going to aluminum from brass, but I haven't heard any of them in years. Jim Williams modded one to mount a half-working U 89 i capsule on for me several years ago. (My original U 89 i capsule failed. I had Neumann replace it and they sent back the original capsule. Jim said one side was still working so he mounted it on one of his SP-1 mods and sent it back. I got a pretty great sounding mic for $250!!! (Thanks, Jim!)

Oh, yeah, different condenser mics will sound different when plugged into different preamps. We found this out years ago. A Focusrite Red two channel preamp reacted horribly with a TLM 103. The TLM 103 and AKG C414 are both a little picky about which preamps they like.

AKG was unhappy when I reported this while reviewing a pair for Pro Audio Review. I got a call from the editor about my mentioning it in the article. I know and respect the folks at AKG, but my response was, "Tell them I said they don't get out enough." The review ran without editing.

The C414 and TLM 103 sounded very nice through my GML preamps, and probably many others as well. I'm not sure what the problem was but it was remarkably evident.

We even found differences in mic cables in another test!!!!!! That was back when the first Gefell made it over from what had been East Germany. (Am I really THAT old) The Gefell M71 caardioid was the first. I bought one for about $950, because it had a very Neumann-like sound. Still have it. Still use it. Three of us (with professional ears) heard similar differences when we used three different makes of mic cable.

Ahhhhhhh. Make it stop. Oh no! I'm out of coffee!! Bye!

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

The TLM 103 and AKG C414 are both a little picky about which preamps they like.

Hmmm... I didn't know that. I own a 414 but I haven't used it in years because I didn't love the sound I was getting. That was back when the only preamp I owned was a Focusrite Platinum TwinTrak Pro. That unit is long gone and I have a bunch of much better preamp options now. I'll have to pull that 414 out of the case and give it another chance.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Hmmm... I didn't know that. I own a 414 but I haven't used it in years because I didn't love the sound I was getting. That was back when the only preamp I owned was a Focusrite Platinum TwinTrak Pro. That unit is long gone and I have a bunch of much better preamp options now. I'll have to pull that 414 out of the case and give it another chance.

Do let us know what you discover. Which of the six (I think) different C414s do you have?

BTW, I heard a C414 in a tracking session for a radio show. It was recorded at another studio. When the talent stepped up to the mic, I thought I knew what it would sound like......not that good. It sounded WONDERFUL. After we finished tracking I asked the engineer what the preamp was. It was an old bucket of Neves.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Not that there aren't any, but I've never heard of a mic with published specs that say anything in a percentage - .5%. It's always in dB, as far as I know. So it's possible that the Samson has 5dB of self noise but I'm skeptical of that considering its' cost.

BTW, back a few posts I mentioned that I've lost a bit of high frequency sensitivity. From what I've read, that's something that occurs to virtually all male as we age.

Found that a tad strange as well as that kind of thing/term is usually for THD or IM .
Took a lot of searching as I recall to find that confusing bit of info too .

Spec's - I live and die by them . it bothers me when manufacturers omit key spec's ,
like for example :

• Bose •

You can't find the spec's on the S1- and the bigger more expensive model(s) - and I
for one like Bose products .

In the 70's I lived in San Diego California Bose gave exhibitions of their 4" full range speaker
arrays that powered concert halls . When stacked up high it looked like a bee's honeycomb
on the stage - huge & awesome to look at and a fantastic sound too. .

None the less besides the spec's issue the Samson C01 is a good mic .

Yeah it's true about as you age and HiHz sensitivity dropping some , but some with
tinnitus really suffer HiHz loss .

EZ :

HR

[lliam]

I've used a bunch of budget microphones but my favourite of them all is the MXL V67. It's amazing on acoustic instruments, especially guitar. It's not my favourite option for vocals as it's a little bright but can still get the job done nice.

They only run about $60 and I got mine used for only $20 I own a bunch of higher end microphones now but will still pull this one out quite a lot

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Do let us know what you discover. Which of the six (I think) different C414s do you have?

I have the B-XL II version. I bought it hoping it would pull double duty for guitars and vocals. I liked it for neither.

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

BTW, I heard a C414 in a tracking session for a radio show. It was recorded at another studio. When the talent stepped up to the mic, I thought I knew what it would sound like......not that good. It sounded WONDERFUL. After we finished tracking I asked the engineer what the preamp was. It was an old bucket of Neves.

I don't have a bucket of Neves laying around but I do have there:
Hardy M1
Hendy DaVinci
Sebatron Axis 200vu
Demeter VTMP-2c
Perhaps my 414 will play nice with one of those. I'll get around to trying it out one of these days but it may not be soon. I have a mastering job to finish for a client and then I have to concentrate on packing the house. I'm moving down to the Asheville NC area in the near future and how soon my studio is up and running again depends on how soon I find a house I like.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I have the B-XL II version. I bought it hoping it would pull double duty for guitars and vocals. I liked it for neither.

I don't have a bucket of Neves laying around but I do have there:
Hardy M1
Hendy DaVinci
Sebatron Axis 200vu
Demeter VTMP-2c
Perhaps my 414 will play nice with one of those. I'll get around to trying it out one of these days but it may not be soon. I have a mastering job to finish for a client and then I have to concentrate on packing the house. I'm moving down to the Asheville NC area in the near future and how soon my studio is up and running again depends on how soon I find a house I like.

Perfect! The Hardy should be just fine. I don't know the others personally.
Asheville's a very cool town. As you may know, "It's already happened" there and that's reflected in the Real Estate prices. Maybe out of town on a hill top with a view of the Great Smokles.......

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Perfect! The Hardy should be just fine. I don't know the others personally.

Every one of those pres is stellar to my ears. They all bring a little something different to the table.

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Asheville's a very cool town. As you may know, "It's already happened" there and that's reflected in the Real Estate prices. Maybe out of town on a hill top with a view of the Great Smokles.......

Yeah, I figure I'm good as long as I'm withing a 30-40 minute drive of Asheville. Even with the current higher prices in Asheville, I can still get better bang for my buck than here on Long Island. I'm really looking forward to having a much better studio situation. My current room is way too small.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Yeah, I figure I'm good as long as I'm withing a 30-40 minute drive of Asheville. Even with the current higher prices in Asheville, I can still get better bang for my buck than here on Long Island. I'm really looking forward to having a much better studio situation. My current room is way too small.

I have a guitar playing friend who moved there from Boseman, Montana to escape the cold. When I challenged him about the heat, he said due to the altitude, it really wasn't that oppressive. We went down in August and there were a couple of 92 degree days, but they were not really oppressive at all.

If you just need an overnight, the Holiday Inn on the south side of town was very accommodating. I reviewed it.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser..._Carolina.html

There are lots of great places to eat. Here's one we liked.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser..._Carolina.html

Enjoy!

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Ty would know best, but I suspect that specs on low end imported mics should be taken with a significant grain of salt.

I've also found by experience that not all noise is created equal. I had a pair of not-cheap mics years ago that had an especially grainy type of noise that really stuck out, even tho the specs weren't that bad. Worse, one mic of the "matched" pair, was substantially noisier than the other, which made the noise stick out badly on a stereo recording. If the noise was balanced, I think it would be easier to subliminally ignore, but with this, anyone who listened to a track immediately asked "what's up with that left channel?".

It's a see-saw. If you're just looking at specs, you have to be observant of selfnoise and sensitivity as a pair of specs.

One mic may have a higher selfnoise than other, but if it's also a more sensitive mic, then you don't need as much preamp gain. Reducing the gain also reduces selfnoise.

Once you lower the gain on the preamp to match levels with the mic with lower selfnoise and lower sensitivity, then the selfnoise of the noisier mic is reduced.

Make sense?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

It's a see-saw. If you're just looking at specs, you have to be observant of selfnoise and sensitivity as a pair of specs.

One mic may have a higher selfnoise than other, but if it's also a more sensitive mic, then you don't need as much preamp gain. Reducing the gain also reduces selfnoise.

Once you lower the gain on the preamp to match levels with the mic with lower selfnoise and lower sensitivity, then the selfnoise of the noisier mic is reduced.

Make sense?

I was being more cynical, on these low-end mics, I doubt there's much QC on the individual mics, and wonder how much effort goes into verifying specs at all.

But you make a better point that applies to all cases - even if they're 100% accurate, you can't just compare noise, it's the resulting signal to noise that counts. A mic rated at half the noise, but 1/4 the sensitivity will end up being twice as noising in use once you raise the gain to make up for the lower output.