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Old 05-09-2018, 06:16 AM
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Transylvania Transylvania is offline
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Default Mandolin question from a grade 1 novice

I have been listening to some old The Band/Levon Helm music and starting to really get into the mandolin. I've been playing acoustic guitar for 40+ years but have never really played the mandolin. That said, what would those of you in the know recommend for a good starter model. I've seen them for $6-8K--hanging in a high-end store. That's not what I'm looking for. I also don't want a really cheap one that I will lose a lot if I sell, or would want to upgrade in a short while if I take to it. I'm would probably be more interested in something on the used market.

Your input would be appreciated.

Frank
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:34 AM
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Erithon Erithon is offline
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I started on a J. Bovier F5T which gets you a lot for its price point.
You also may want to check out the classifieds at the MandolinCafe forum.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:20 AM
Frogstar Frogstar is offline
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The US-made Breedloves have taken kind of a beating on the used market value, so they seem like a pretty good buy right now (I'm quite happy with mine).
Otherwise the general recommendations are usually for a Kentucky or Eastman around the ~$500 price point, as mentioned, I'd have a look at mandolincafe.com for specific models.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:31 AM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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The best advice I can give is:

1. Understand that quality mandolins have a carved top and carved back. A LOT of hours go into building one.

2. There are about 1000 guitar players to every one mandolin player. There are a LOT more guitars being sold than mandolins.

3. Number 1 and 2 above mean you are going to spend a LOT more to get the same quality mandolin that you can get in a guitar. You can pick up a playable, decent sounding new guitar for $300 - $500. You need to spend closer to $1000 to get the same quality in a new mandolin.

4. The most bang for your buck will be a used A style.

5. A used Kentucky, The Loar or Eastman A5 is your best bet.

Last edited by Kerbie; 10-03-2018 at 04:32 AM. Reason: Edited.
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Old 05-09-2018, 10:22 AM
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Check out the Kentucky KM272. I have much more expensive mandolins and I'm blown away by the awesome tone the 272 can achieve.
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:34 PM
Jim_G Jim_G is offline
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What Bart said. A used A style from Kentucky, Eastman, or The Loar will give you the biggest bang for the buck.

Last edited by Kerbie; 10-03-2018 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Edited
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Old 05-09-2018, 03:00 PM
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First, would need to know what kind of music you plan to play. Mandolins are not created equal and a mis-match can be pretty ugly. You can get very fine American made instruments used at fairly low price levels. For example, if you like the sound on The Band albums, Levon Helm usually played a Gibson F2 from the Teens. One of those would set you back about $3K to $5K but you could look for a similarly constructed modern instrument. FWIW, you are hearing the sound of an oval soundhole mandolin with a lateral brace.
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Old 05-09-2018, 03:36 PM
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The problem here is money. By their nature, mandolins cost double what the same quality guitar would. So if your minimum guitar threshold is a Martin D 18 you could pick up used for $1600 or so, that is a $3000 mandolin. Roughly.

NoW you can get a real good A style mandolin for $1200 used. Same F style is $2500+

If you have no intention of spending that kind of money, don't ever play one. You will regret it.

I'm pretty jaded when it comes to instruments. I got the chance to play my way up both the Kentucky and Eastman lines when I was able to get to Pheonix and go to The Mandolin Store. All the Kentucky mandolins up to the 900 series sounded pretty much the same to me, and same with the Eastmans. Certainly you got a fancier mandolin as you climbed the ladder, but then you get to the 900 and above master series Kentuckys and woah, things get good. If you could find a used Kentucky 900 or higher, you'd be pretty happy.

The Mandolin Cafe is a great resource and there are hundreds of newbie questions you can read if you search, and the classifieds will give you a feel for the mandolin world. JUst don't pay too much attention to the $7500 and up mandolins, which is the equivalent to a $4500 Collings guitar.

But then you jump again to the likes of Northfield, Weber, and a host of individual luthier made A styles like Pava, Girouard, etc. These are 1200-1800. $1800 would score you a Collings MT.

Now if you need a scroll, and there is no good reason except because you do, you'll start looking at $2500 and up, mostly up for a mandolin that is as satisfying as a D 18.

You need to gauge your likelyhood of addiction. If it's a passing fancy, many Kentucky and Eastman mandolins will do. If it is not a passing fancy and you should be so foolhardy as to play a Gibson, Collings or Weber, just buy one now. You'll be better off. The thing is, when buying used, especially mainstream like a Collings, they will always be worth what you paid barring any unfortunate accidents.

The thing you MUST know. A good setup on any instrument you buy is a must. The mandolin dealers like the Mandolin Store and others provide a setup on every instrument they sell. You can get a Kentucky KM 150 from one of these dealers for less than $400 and have something decent to take camping when in six months you cave to the inevitable and buy a hand crafted mandolin. Many competent guitar techs don't really know mandolins.

Now someone mentioned J Bovier, and like the Kentucky master series, people have good things to say about them, but the middle ground in the mandolin world is very small.
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Last edited by Br1ck; 05-09-2018 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:56 PM
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My first mandolin was a Kentucky 150S, which I bought from a friend for $185. New they're around $300 or so. It's very good for a starter mandolin. With a good setup it plays very well and sounds quite good, better than a lot of other cheap mandos. I still have it.

A year ago I bought a brand new Breedlove Crossover O mandolin (oval hole A style) for $500. All solid woods, and very, very nice, plays beautifully and has a very nice sound (better than the Kentucky). I got it from FolkMusician.com in Reno NV. They do a setup there before the send it out. I highly recommend them.

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Old 05-09-2018, 11:48 PM
gabriel_bc gabriel_bc is offline
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Check your local craigslist for a Kentucky KM-150s, KM-180s, KM-340s, or any of the other ones already mentioned in this thread. If you get a good local deal you can always sell it when you upgrade or keep it for a beater/camping one.

My starter mando was/is an Ibanez 511 - a Japanese model from the 1970s with a solid top and laminate back/sides. Got it for $80 and it has been an excellent value. I installed a JJB Prestige 220 in it and it works well plugged in or unplugged.

Another good option in your price range is a used Mid-Missouri / Big Muddy if you can find one.

The cafe is THE PLACE for all things mandolin.
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Old 05-10-2018, 02:41 AM
frankmcr frankmcr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transylvania View Post
I have been listening to some old The Band/Levon Helm music and starting to really get into the mandolin. I've been playing acoustic guitar for 40+ years but have never really played the mandolin. That said, what would those of you in the know recommend for a good starter model. I've seen them for $6-8K--hanging in a high-end store. That's not what I'm looking for. I also don't want a really cheap one that I will lose a lot if I sell, or would want to upgrade in a short while if I take to it. I'm would probably be more interested in something on the used market.

Your input would be appreciated.

Frank
Get a Rogue. They work. They're plenty good enough to play anything Levon Helm played on mandolin.
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:34 AM
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I want to thank everyone who has offered input on this thread. I am getting a real education. When I said "Grade 1 Novice", I meant it. I have been to Mandolin Café. The options there are a bit overwhelming at this moment, but I'm SLOWLY beginning to figure out which way to proceed.

Thank you and keep your thoughts coming.
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:42 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I've been a mandolin player on and off (mostyl off recently) since the late '70s.
Today I would recommend Eastmans above all for budget carved top intsruments.

F models have that lovely scroll, and A models don't. The scroll actually does nothing for the sound but it is a great strap hanger.

The ther is the model "4" and "5" 4 means roud hole and 5 means F-holes. The former tends to give you a rounder (sic) warmer sound, whereas the "5" give a sharper more percussive sound - hence their use in bluegrass.
Eastman use these numbers at the end of their model numbers, and the higher the three figure number the better the trim and woods.

Spend some time on this website : https://www.eastmanguitars.com/mandolin

If you progress to performing with a mandolin the Eastman will probably not be your final instrument but a very good starting place.
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Old 05-10-2018, 08:52 AM
rpguitar rpguitar is offline
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I'm in your shoes, as a 40+ year guitar player who just bought his first mandolin. I got the bug after descending for a couple of weeks listening to all kinds of contemporary bluegrass. I'm normally a jazz guy. But Sierra Hull, Chris Thile, wow...

I have quite a few really nice guitars including a 1928 Gibson L-5 so my expectations are very refined. So I was not looking for an el cheapo mandolin, but neither can I justify a $5K mandolin just to see how I like playing one. So I was aiming for a personal sweet spot of between $1-2K.

Anyway I spent 2 hours at Lark Street here in NJ playing every mandolin under $2K with no bias about what I should buy. I listened to the tone and assessed the playability, adjustment potential, and condition. I played a couple of new Eastmans, a couple of Rigels, a few vintage Gibsons, a Flatiron from the 80s, a Loar and and old Martin.

I will spare you all of the individual impressions but I ended up with a 1939 Gibson A-50 for about $1200. Lovely warm, sweet tone, and nicely playable. I have since filed the nut slots, lowered the action, and tweaked the truss rod (I do my own setups). Really nice instrument. I confess that I am a vintage Gibson archtop guitar nut, so I am happy on that front as well.

I am almost positive that if I keep at it, I will buy a nicer mandolin eventually. I'm still way too new to really understand the subtleties of the instrument and what tones are possible with other models. But I think my choice was good for a first quality instrument, which is what I set out to find.
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Old 05-10-2018, 03:14 PM
darylcrisp darylcrisp is offline
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Frank
I dropped into the mando world a few years ago and love it. Knowing your flavor in guitars, I have some recommendations with a cause. Get one that will appeal to you in such a way that you can't sit it down, get one with a low setup that frets easy-but clean. Also knowing your skills and desire level, I expect you will continue so I'm going to suggest a nice mandolin that could easily be a forever mandolin.

A few things that will take you some time to figure out:
1)what shape neck profile works for me best
2)what nut width(and string spacing) work for me best
3)what scale works best for you, from 13-14"
4)do I want an A style or F style(scroll and top and bottom points).
5)flat fretboard or radius fretboard
6)small, medium, or large frets

these things above no one can tell you. you just have to experience them and figure out for yourself.

Most people suggest guitar players to go with a wider fretboard at first-I'm not so sure of that now. I think a 1 1/8" nut width is a good all around width-and popular, so easy to sell later if it doesn't work. At first its all going to be awkward and feel wrong-give it time, keep working, it will come.
Highly suggest watching/learning at mandolessons.com
Its free, the lessons are excellent, and Baron offers a lot for all levels.
Plenty to learn there, then if you want more, there's all sorts of online teaching that is excellent(artistworks, peghead nation, Matt Flinners classes, and many more-but I really like the ones I've listed, and you can get an all around education on the mando and not just bluegrass).

A style or F style. Neither sound better or worse. Both can do the same music-its all about that particular mandolin. Some brands are very consistent(Collings, Girouard, Weber, Pava, Northfield, used Ellis)in quality, build, ease of action settings, fretwork-very very important in mandolin, and tone.
the one big thing I notice about and A or F, if you sit and play, the F style is typically easier because you can use the bottom points to balance the instrument-if you sit and play with an A style, you pretty much need to use a strap to help balance it(so your hands are free to do the string work). I sit and play, and I am most happy with an F style, but, in time, you can/do learn how to hold an A style without a strap if you get one. a way to help with an A while sitting and using no strap, is to put a toneguard on the back-these slip on easy and stay in place, the bottom tips of the guard I use like a point on the F style and it balances easily while sitting.

Flat fretboard or radius. I've had both, I highly prefer radius, and I prefer med to large frets myself. Again, things you will decide over time.

neck profile can be reshaped on a mandolin neck-a too sharp V profile can be softened and blended, a too round neck can be reshaped to a soft V. And you leave it as a speedneck(a lot of players prefer this), or you can recolor and finish after the shaping. This is all normal in the mando world-so if you end up with a mandolin you love but the neck just bothers you, there is still much hope.

I would look for a used Girouard A or F, Weber F, Collings A or F.
They are out there, reach out to me if you want me to send you some links.
And yes, the Café is the place for everything mandolin.

Gregboyds had a used Weber F that looks really good, and Greg is a very trusted soul in the music world. I would jump on this one.


https://gregboyd.com/product/2010-we...ot-f-mandolin/

with this one, you can learn a lot, its got a great burst, by Gregs announcement it has good tone, and if you sell it later you will not lose much if anything. probably in a year or two you might even list it higher.

A setup is very very important on mandolin, to be happy, to keep playing, and to progress. We are not that far apart. I do very good setups on mandolins. could set it up for a low action and easy play in no time.

There was a used Girouard A in the Café ads-that would be an awesome mandolin also, max and laurie build great instruments and they are just getting better and better. I have an octave A that is a monster.

A used Northfield F5S with the modern setup(larger frets, radius board), are consistant, hold value, and play and sound exceptional with all music styles. New ones run under $3000

Collings are typically exceptional in all areas, but do have a pretty bright tone-unless you get an englemann top. I've had a bunch of them, tend to really like the A styles for the tone and light weight and price.

also call/check ThemandolinStore, Dennis and Brian do nice setups on instruments they send out, they have a huge stock and know their business well. They get nice quality tradeins all the time. I've purchased probably 5 from them. There are a lot of videos on youtube from themandolinstore , so browse those for a tone that suits your ears.

pm or email if you need or want more
d

check out these folks for interest:
Sierra Hull
John Reischman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oZzfeetE5U



Sharon Gilchrist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgy_c5qcrCA




mandolessons.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_Esi4hhHKo&t=97s



David Benedict(does mandolin Mondays on the Café)
http://davidbenedictmusic.com/

Matt Flinners courses-these run about 4 weeks and he is an excellent teacher. He has a live session each week, and you can download it after if you miss it-he taught David above, and is just a well versed performer teacher. Highly recommend one of his beginner sessions-even if its bluegrass and you don't want that, you will learn a lot. his classes are extremely interesting and well designed to have you moving in a positive direction from the getgo.
http://www.mattflinner.com/

theres a couple excellent luthiers/shops near Asheville
http://condino.com/

Fiddle and Fret-near Asheville, he flys under the radar, has a small shop but does repairs on vintage guitars, instruments, and has a few US made mandolins at times(pava, ellis, collings). HIGHLY recommended, theres a used 3 point Weber there that's probably going to be a swell instrument.
http://www.fiddleandfret.com/mandolins-for-sale.html

Last edited by darylcrisp; 05-10-2018 at 06:02 PM.
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