Casein pick care?

[DesertTwang]

I'm a fan of faux turtle shell* picks like the ones made from casein (with John Pearse Fast Turtle and Hense being my favorites). These picks do require some special care; they can warp or crack over time.

I noticed that Red Bear offers some kind of oil called Red Bear Pick Tonic to maintain these picks in good shape. If it actually helps, I have no idea, but considering that the material is loosely related to keratin, which is in our nails and hair, I figure applying a little bit of oil might indeed help preserve their longevity.

Does anyone have experience with this? I have a hunch this "tonic" may simply be cedar oil, so perhaps I could use any body care oil I have around the house to oil my casein picks periodically?

* Just in case anyone wonders, I deliberately use the term turtle shell instead of tortoise shell, because the material was made from the shell of sea turtles, not tortoises (their land-living kin).

[jfitz81]

I have a Red Bear pick and a bottle of the RB Pick Tonic. I've used the tonic maybe three times in the three years or so I've owned it, using only one drop each time. (The tonic smells strongly of cedar, so I suspect your hunch may be correct, although I have no experience with cedar oil.) Perhaps it helped, but I couldn't tell any noticeable difference. I haven't used the tonic in more than a year, with no ill effects.

My pick has held up very well, but I keep it in a case (never loose in my pocket), and I try not to get it wet. It has some light scratches, but has not warped, cracked, or chipped at all, and I use it almost exclusively. Mine is a heavy gauge (~1.5mm) pick, so warping may be more of an issue if you're using something thinner.

[DesertTwang]

Thank you for sharing your experience! Red Bear picks seem to be all but extinct. I checked their website a few weeks back and saw that they advertise a whole range of picks, all supposedly being available starting "June 8, 2018." Well, I checked back today, and every pick except two I'm not interested in are "out of stock." A little research turned up forum threads reporting the same thing several years ago. I'm under the impression the company never got their act together, and I could not find even one music store that sells them online. Very disappointing.

[Proclaimer888]

Mostly impressed that anyone has the cunning ability to keep a pick long enough to need a special application. My pick fairy visits often and takes without prejudice.

[Charmed Life Picks]

I'm not sure what that oil might be, but almost any oil would be fine.

On the curving: Yes, over time, just as with genuine TS, the pick will begin to spoon out a bit. Most players, including me, like it because it fits around you thumb. However, if this bugs you, you can place the pick under something smooth (we use marble tiles) and add a brick or two on top.

Most casein care is preventative: Avoid extreme heat, extreme moisture, and do not attempt to flex the material in any way.

RB makes beautiful stuff.

Hope this helps,
scott memmer

[jfitz81]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Thank you for sharing your experience! Red Bear picks seem to be all but extinct. I checked their website a few weeks back and saw that they advertise a whole range of picks, all supposedly being available starting "June 8, 2018." Well, I checked back today, and every pick except two I'm not interested in are "out of stock." A little research turned up forum threads reporting the same thing several years ago. I'm under the impression the company never got their act together, and I could not find even one music store that sells them online. Very disappointing.

That's the way it goes--the picks sell out within an hour or so. You have to watch the website for a while (like, a few weeks) and wait for an announcement that whatever style you want is coming available. Then, log on right at that time and buy it. The "picker's choice" sales come up pretty frequently, where you can order whatever shape you want in a given gauge. It's a pain, but worth it IMO.

[vindibona1]

The only thing that I do to my JP picks is to polish the edges with super-fine sand paper 5000-7000 grit to keep them super smooth (as I do all my premium picks). I have a little difficulty hanging onto them when my hands get damp, so I rough up the contact surfaces a bit with sandpaper, avoiding any areas that could potentially touch the strings.

Never use oils, creams, tonics of any kind. If they ever need that kind of care I'll just go buy a new one.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

The only thing that I do to my JP picks is to polish the edges with super-fine sand paper 5000-7000 grit to keep them super smooth (as I do all my premium picks). I have a little difficulty hanging onto them when my hands get damp, so I rough up the contact surfaces a bit with sandpaper, avoiding any areas that could potentially touch the strings.

Never use oils, creams, tonics of any kind. If they ever need that kind of care I'll just go buy a new one.

In the time I've been working with casein I've never found the need for an oil or that sort of thing. However, Red Bear has been working with this very difficult material for almost twenty years, so they would know.

This stuff is truly impossible to work with. You have no idea. It makes you talk to yourself -- not in a good way.

sm

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by jfitz81

That's the way it goes--the picks sell out within an hour or so. You have to watch the website for a while (like, a few weeks) and wait for an announcement that whatever style you want is coming available.

Wow, that's crazy. I'm afraid that's not a very conducive business model for folks like me who have a job, a baby, a life, that kind of thing...

In the meantime, i found a possible alternative: Hawk picks, made in the UK. they look almost identical to the Red Bear picks, and I have a hunch they might even be sourced from the same supplier. They're cheaper, too (12 GBP = $16) instead of $30:

https://hawkpicks.co.uk/product/tonebird-6-abalone/

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

That stuff is truly impossible to work with. You have no idea. It makes you talk to yourself -- not in a good way.

sm

That is interesting. I was actually wondering if one could make DYI casein picks at home. This article I found in Scientific American makes it sound like a kid's project:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-milk-plastic/

[jfitz81]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Wow, that's crazy. I'm afraid that's not a very conducive business model for folks like me who have a job, a baby, a life, that kind of thing...

Lol true...(although I had all of those things when I snagged mine. Just noted the sale time and set a calendar reminder...)

But yeah, I don't get the sense RB is looking to take over the world. I think it's just one guy making the picks, and his wife handling the business end. They've been running that way for years.

Scott knows better than anyone here about working with casein, I'd say. I don't think the problem is producing the material, it's shaping and polishing it.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

That is interesting. I was actually wondering if one could make DYI casein picks at home. This article I found in Scientific American makes it sound like a kid's project:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-milk-plastic/

Twang, actually, yes, you CAN make it one your kitchen table. However, it is not the quality you'd need to make picks with.

Almost every country in the world making casein has gone out of business. The reason? It cannot be shaped or injection molded, so it can't compete with celluloid, ultem, and other plastics out there. You must buy a sheet 4.0 mm thick, then machine the pick shape out, then grind away the excess. It's extremely frustrating and time-consuming, which is why most pick vendors won't even deal with the stuff. But the reward on the end is a pick that comes very close in tone and feel to genuine TS.

The last remaining manufacturers of casein in the world will almost certainly go bankrupt in the next ten to twenty years. It will then go extinct.

I spent more than two years in research (which I love) chasing down the actual industrial formula for manufacturing pick-grade casein sheets. I doubt anyone else in the world in the pick industry has this information; it's part of our intellectual property. I'm a maniac when it comes to research. So we're positioned to begin making our own in the near term. It's such a beautiful plastic that to me, aside from commercial considerations, I want to preserve that heritage.

BTW, in the course of my research I found some really fascinating information. For thousands of years the liquid version of casein has been used as a binding agent in paint. Here is an article showing cave paintings that are 49,000 years old that have casein in them:

http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/20...est-paint.html

I believe I read somewhere that the paintings inside the ancient Egyptian pyramids also have casein in them.

Love this stuff,
scott

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by jfitz81

Lol true...(although I had all of those things when I snagged mine. Just noted the sale time and set a calendar reminder...)

But yeah, I don't get the sense RB is looking to take over the world. I think it's just one guy making the picks, and his wife handling the business end. They've been running that way for years.

Scott knows better than anyone here about working with casein, I'd say. I don't think the problem is producing the material, it's shaping and polishing it.

I've said often, and will continue to say, that Dave at Red Bear makes the finest and most beautiful picks in the industry, bar none. Yes, tough to snag one, but worth the pursuit. I own a few myself.

You might sniff around the secondary market. Here's one currently on eBay, although an odd shape:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Bear-Gu...wAAOSw0O9bGtnt

Might also look around CL and Reverb from time to time.

scott memmer

[DesertTwang]

Very interesting, Scott. Thank you for sharing that information. That "two-tip" pick you found ebay is the most bizarre-looking pick I've ever seen. I can't really believe it's meant to play a guitar. Probably some other instrument I'm not familiar with.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Very interesting, Scott. Thank you for sharing that information. That "two-tip" pick you found ebay is the most bizarre-looking pick I've ever seen. I can't really believe it's meant to play a guitar. Probably some other instrument I'm not familiar with.

Actually, Daniel, that's a very old pick design that was in common use a century ago. I've found them in old mandolin case pockets more than once, made out of either celluloid and genuine tortoiseshell.


whm