Fingerstyle guitar spec dilemma

[abelville]

I was all ready to buy a Martin 000-18, then I noticed that the string spacing at the Saddle is narrow - 2 5/32".
Kinda a bummer. While they were at "Reimagining" their standard series, why not match 1 3/4" nut with 2 1/4" saddle spacing. Oh well, it is what it is. My ceiling is $3000 - new or used. I'm looking for a fingerstyle/strummer with sonic qualities of the 000-18, with 1 3/4" nut, and 2 1/4" saddle spacing, 24.9" scale. Thanks for your guidance. Al

[phil0021]

Originally Posted by abelville

I was all ready to buy a Martin 000-18, then I noticed that the string spacing at the Saddle is narrow - 2 5/32".
Kinda a bummer. While they were at "Reimagining" their standard series, why not match 1 3/4" nut with 2 1/4" saddle spacing. Oh well, it is what it is. My ceiling is $3000 - new or used. I'm looking for a fingerstyle/strummer with sonic qualities of the 000-18, with 1 3/4" nut, and 2 1/4" saddle spacing. Thanks for your guidance. Al

I jumped from 2 5/16 with 1 7/8 nut ('73 00-21) to 2 3/16 with 1 3/4 nut (2011 D-28) with no problem. From there I moved to 2 5/32 (SC13e) seamlessly. I'm 99.9% fingerstyle. Muscle memory will adapt. I don't think you'll have any issue.

[KevinH]

Hard to say what would reproduce the sonic properties since different properties are important to different people. But, how about a 000-15sm? 1-3/4" nut, 2-1/4" spacing at the saddle. The scale length is a little longer than you mentioned but its a 12-fret so the reach to the nut might be about the same. Or have you looked at the Larrivee 000s? They have a 1-3/4" nut and 2-1/4" string spacing.

[Misifus]

Wouldn’t an OM come close to your specs?

[jklotz]

If you don't mind the V Mod neck shape, there's always the CEO 7

[MHC]

Sent you a PM.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by jklotz

If you don't mind the V Mod neck shape, there's always the CEO 7

Yup. I got interested in the CEO-7 largely based on specs. It’s a little bolder sounding than the 000-18, probably because of its Adirondack Spruce top. It’s 1.75 and 2 5/16 at the saddle, with a 24.9 scale. It’s technically a slope shouldered 00, but it’s lower bought and waist are almost exactly the size of an 00 - just the upper bought is a bit smaller. I was a tiny bit hesitant about the Mod-V neck, but turns out I LOVE it - to the extent I may never buy another guitar without that neck, or very similar.

If you’re a really experienced finger picker, you may be able to adapt to narrower spacing. I’m relatively new to it and need all the help I can get. I really notice when I play a guitar with narrower spacing. 2 1/4 is my minimum, 2 5/16 is a little easier, and 2 3/8 felt downright wonderful except it came with a pretty beefy neck with a 1 7/8 nut, which was a real handful for me...

The CEO-7 is definitely worth checking out. Or the CEO-9, which is the identical guitar except for wood type - it’s a mellower sounding guitar and more $$$, but you might prefer it...

-Ray

[abelville]

Originally Posted by raysachs

Yup. I got interested in the CEO-7 largely based on specs. It’s a little bolder sounding than the 000-18, probably because of its Adirondack Spruce top. It’s 1.75 and 2 5/16 at the saddle, with a 24.9 scale. It’s technically a slope shouldered 00, but it’s lower bought and waist are almost exactly the size of an 00 - just the upper bought is a bit smaller. I was a tiny bit hesitant about the Mod-V neck, but turns out I LOVE it - to the extent I may never buy another guitar without that neck, or very similar.



If you’re a really experienced finger picker, you may be able to adapt to narrower spacing. I’m relatively new to it and need all the help I can get. I really notice when I play a guitar with narrower spacing. 2 1/4 is my minimum, 2 5/16 is a little easier, and 2 3/8 felt downright wonderful except it came with a pretty beefy neck with a 1 7/8 nut, which was a real handful for me...

The CEO-7 is definitely worth checking out. Or the CEO-9, which is the identical guitar except for wood type - it’s a mellower sounding guitar and more $$$, but you might prefer it...



-Ray

Thanks for the suggestion. How is cording up around the 12th fret? Thanks! Al

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by abelville

Thanks for the suggestion. How is cording up around the 12th fret? Thanks! Al

I don’t play a lot of chords up that high, but I venture up there when i play leads, and access is fine. It’s a slope shoulder, but it’s still a 14 fret join, so there’s plenty of room. You just kind of have to find out for yourself if you like the Mod-V neck. It seems to be a love it or hate it kind of thing. I love it but a number of people have been put off the CEO-7 because of it...

-Ray

[surfcowboy]

This post is giving me déjà vu. I was in a very similar position about a year ago. I also play a variety of fingerstyle and flat-picking / strumming and 2 1/4" bridge spacing feels just about right to me. Unfortunately if you want a Martin 000 then your options are somewhat limited unless you are okay with V shape necks.

These are the few of the options I was considering in my search. These should all be either 2 5/16" or 2 1/4" spacing:

• Martin Custom shop 000, 14 fret, standard taper, 1 3/4" Nut
• Martin 000 12 Fret to the body
• 00-15m custom shop with standard taper from LA Guitar Sales (they might also make a 000?)
• Used Martin 00-18v, maybe a 000 version as well?
• Used Martin 000-18 Golden Era
• Bourgeois 000-14 fret
• CEO-7 - Mod V neck

That's as much as I can remember. I'd keep an eye out on reverb for used custom shop 000s since it's not too uncommon for people to order the wider string spacing. The main spec you want to avoid is the high performance neck taper. Good luck with your search!

[Blueser100]

I love my 000-18. I have no issue with the string spacing. It’s my forever guitar hands down.

[BlueStarfish]

If you are willing to consider lower price points and offshore production, I just sold an Alvarez MF60OM that had pretty much that spec. OK, the scale was 24 13/16 but boy that’s close. That particular model is clearly meant to be a budget homage to a Martin 000-18, and sounded surprisingly good for a $600 guitar. All-solid, Sitka top, African mahogany sides, forward-shifted X bracing. Tone was really lovely played lightly or finger picked with light gage strings. I sold it because I realized after owning it for nearly a year that I really prefer standard scale guitars (as I play almost entirely with a flatpick and like the higher tension of medium strings on a standard scale). Replaced it with an OM-style guitar from another make, which has a standard length scale. But if I played mostly finger style, the Alvarez would have been a long term keeper.

[mawmow]

Throwed an eye at Martin GPC or Taylor GA (xx4) ?

[EZYPIKINS]

Funny abelville. You already have the answer.
Your signature says it all.
Just play it.
If you want the tone of a 000-18. Buy it. Suck it up, and play. You'll get used to it.

[zombywoof]

There is no rule book. I move between guitars such as a 1932 Gibson L1 or a 2013 Fairbanks Smeck and a 1942 J50. While all three have 1 3/4" nut (or in the case of the Gibsons thereabouts) the L1 and Fairbanks have a 2 3/8" string spacing at the bridge while the J50 has a skimpier 2 2/16". It just takes my right hand a little time to acclimate. But after that my hand starts doing what it knows to do without any thinking going on at least that I am aware of.