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  #1  
Old 03-31-2021, 07:29 AM
hovishead hovishead is offline
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Default Help for a recording noob?

Hey there, I recently bought my first proper microphone https://www.akg.com/Microphones/Cond...C414+XLII.html. Probably overkill, but I have been playing for over 30 years and have recently been getting back into wanting to record my music so didn't want to get something too cheap.

I just wanted some advice on what to get next to complete my basic set-up.

I would like to record guitar, piano and vocals with my two kids and would prefer to record in a band setting rather than record one at a time.

Any advice would be most welcome. I've been reading up on a lot of this stuff, but it makes me dizzy after only half an hour given the amount of information out there.

I have a decent enough PC although I don't think it has USBC inputs. I have decent computer speakers, but I don't know whether I have to buy "studio monitors" as they call them.

I also plan to use my boss RC500 looper pedal so I can add a few layers during recording so I'm guessing I would just play this through my usual amp and mic up that amp directly possibly with another mic?

I don't have an audio interface or anything to plug the new mic into as yet apart from my looper. I also need to buy some mic stands.

Thanks,

and sorry for being such a noob.
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2021, 08:10 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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There are many different paths and processes to accomplish what you want to do it is difficult to provide a simple and clear cut answer.

I'd recommend you first go through a few pages of topics in this forum and read the ones that relate to newbie recording. There's a lot of stuff that's covered there that would directly relate to what you want to do.

Given what you have at present, which isn't much, I would suggest you bypass the entire computer aspect to do your basic tracking. This lets you focus on the creativity part without bogging down from the technical aspects of dealing with all the peripherals.

If I were in your situation I'd pick up something like the Zoom Livetrak L8 and a good set of headphones to use with it. A pair of powered monitors would also be good if you want others to listen and will be useful when you advance in your needs.

I use Beyerdynamic DT770 headphones and can recommend them. I also like my Presonus Eris 5 powered monitors.

Why the Zoom Livetrak L8 or similar recorder?

Instant gratification, and it makes the tracking process much simpler. It's also easier to carry around so you don't need to be chained to your computer location. It helpsa bunch if you can track in the best sounding and most comfortable area of your home environment. You can start with your new AKG mic and add more mics for other family members as you see fit. Track at 24 bits and it will help when you eventually want to do editing of your recordings.

I personally prefer to use a separate live tracking setup like this because it makes the recording process so easy. For home use of your recordings you may never need the computer.

When, and if, you decide you want to edit your recorded material you can download your tracks to a computer, use a proper DAW, audio interface, and your monitors of headphones to edit your tracks into a finished form. You really only need to do that if you're going to distribute them to others, though.

Last edited by Rudy4; 03-31-2021 at 08:23 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2021, 08:46 AM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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I think the best answers will come after you tell us how much money you're willing to spend and how much time you're willing to put in learning how to use stuff.
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Old 03-31-2021, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
I think the best answers will come after you tell us how much money you're willing to spend and how much time you're willing to put in learning how to use stuff.
What he said
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Old 03-31-2021, 09:27 AM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hovishead View Post
I would like to record guitar, piano and vocals with my two kids and would prefer to record in a band setting rather than record one at a time.
Well, you could stick a small digital recorder like a DR-05 in the middle of the group and press record. But the reason to record separately is... what if the piano is too loud and you can't hear the guitar? There's nothing you can do about it other than recording it again and moving the mic closer to the guitar and away from the piano.

The capabilities of (free!) computer-based multitracking home studio software these days are just too amazing to overlook. Yeah, it takes some time and effort to figure out how to use it, but.... what did we used to spend when going into a recording studio? Well, most of never did because it was ridiculously expensive. And now you can have the rudiments of such a studio in your own home for the grand total of zero dollars? Well, I guess in a recording studio you're also paying for the expertise of the recording engineer, but really, you can learn the fundamentals of getting your sonic output onto a modifiable track in an afternoon, probably.

Anyway, I think it's worth it to go that route. You just need an audio interface -- $100-150.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2021, 09:34 AM
hovishead hovishead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
There are many different paths and processes to accomplish what you want to do it is difficult to provide a simple and clear cut answer.

I'd recommend you first go through a few pages of topics in this forum and read the ones that relate to newbie recording. There's a lot of stuff that's covered there that would directly relate to what you want to do.

Given what you have at present, which isn't much, I would suggest you bypass the entire computer aspect to do your basic tracking. This lets you focus on the creativity part without bogging down from the technical aspects of dealing with all the peripherals.

If I were in your situation I'd pick up something like the Zoom Livetrak L8 and a good set of headphones to use with it. A pair of powered monitors would also be good if you want others to listen and will be useful when you advance in your needs.

I use Beyerdynamic DT770 headphones and can recommend them. I also like my Presonus Eris 5 powered monitors.

Why the Zoom Livetrak L8 or similar recorder?

Instant gratification, and it makes the tracking process much simpler. It's also easier to carry around so you don't need to be chained to your computer location. It helpsa bunch if you can track in the best sounding and most comfortable area of your home environment. You can start with your new AKG mic and add more mics for other family members as you see fit. Track at 24 bits and it will help when you eventually want to do editing of your recordings.

I personally prefer to use a separate live tracking setup like this because it makes the recording process so easy. For home use of your recordings you may never need the computer.

When, and if, you decide you want to edit your recorded material you can download your tracks to a computer, use a proper DAW, audio interface, and your monitors of headphones to edit your tracks into a finished form. You really only need to do that if you're going to distribute them to others, though.
Thanks a lot for that advice and for such a detailed reply, I'm going to have a look into that Zoom livetrack device. That might be the route I should go.
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"I used to try to play fast, and it’s fun for a minute, but I always liked saxophone players. They speak on their instrument, and I always wanted to do that on the guitar, to communicate emotionally.

When you write, you wouldn’t just throw words into a bowl. There has to be a beginning, middle and end. Same thing with phrasing on the guitar"

Jimmie Vaughan
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Old 03-31-2021, 09:37 AM
hovishead hovishead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
I think the best answers will come after you tell us how much money you're willing to spend and how much time you're willing to put in learning how to use stuff.
I'm not keen on spending a fortune, I am willing on spending up to $1000 more to get something that is decent enough to get good recordings out of.

Just want some advice on which audio interface to get. I don't want to buy something too cheap as I've heard this can defeat the point in having a good microphone, but then maybe the basic forusrite stuff is good enough for the mic I've purchased already.
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"I used to try to play fast, and it’s fun for a minute, but I always liked saxophone players. They speak on their instrument, and I always wanted to do that on the guitar, to communicate emotionally.

When you write, you wouldn’t just throw words into a bowl. There has to be a beginning, middle and end. Same thing with phrasing on the guitar"

Jimmie Vaughan
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  #8  
Old 03-31-2021, 09:42 AM
hovishead hovishead is offline
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Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
Well, you could stick a small digital recorder like a DR-05 in the middle of the group and press record. But the reason to record separately is... what if the piano is too loud and you can't hear the guitar? There's nothing you can do about it other than recording it again and moving the mic closer to the guitar and away from the piano.

The capabilities of (free!) computer-based multitracking home studio software these days are just too amazing to overlook. Yeah, it takes some time and effort to figure out how to use it, but.... what did we used to spend when going into a recording studio? Well, most of never did because it was ridiculously expensive. And now you can have the rudiments of such a studio in your own home for the grand total of zero dollars? Well, I guess in a recording studio you're also paying for the expertise of the recording engineer, but really, you can learn the fundamentals of getting your sonic output onto a modifiable track in an afternoon, probably.

Anyway, I think it's worth it to go that route. You just need an audio interface -- $100-150.

I totally get what you're saying, for me I'm quite keen to do group recording as my kids get a lot of enjoyment from playing together, I think they're enthusiasm might be dampened a bit from having to record their parts separately.

I would also like to have something to record parts individually for myself as I do compose quite a lot of guitar and piano stuff. Would probably like to get an interface that could accommodate the piano guitar and vocals all at once primarily though.
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"I used to try to play fast, and it’s fun for a minute, but I always liked saxophone players. They speak on their instrument, and I always wanted to do that on the guitar, to communicate emotionally.

When you write, you wouldn’t just throw words into a bowl. There has to be a beginning, middle and end. Same thing with phrasing on the guitar"

Jimmie Vaughan
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2021, 10:08 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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How much complexity to bring to your goal of recording a group of musicians playing together does not have a one size fits all simple answer.

You could document how you sound reasonably well with a modern smartphone using the phone's mic. I've done that at a remote cabin. It works. A single good quality microphone such as you have connected appropriately to some device that will store the recording opens up the possibility of somewhat better quality recording. I can think of any number of things that could make the resulting recordings sound better. Each of those things, used correctly with experience can produce recordings that reduce or increase factors that are pleasing to listeners.

The subsequent journey of "how can I make my recordings better?" can be long and can have many forks in the road.

The suggestion to just get a simple device that stores things digitally,* but is otherwise like the tape recorders of old, is the simplest solution that uses the single good microphone you have. The recorder needs to be able to provide "phantom power" for your mic, but many do. Your next step would be to find the best room to record in and where the microphone should be placed in it, where the musicians should stand, and for the musicians to learn how to balance themselves to the the microphone's "ear" and for you to learn what level to record at so that there are no digital "overs" where the recorder gets a signal too loud to be recorded without ugly distortion. Yes, you should get a mic stand (a cheap one will serve well enough), and an XLR microphone cable.

Your computer is no problem at this stage. A simple free program called Audacity will allow you to trim and do the most basic level adjustments for the pieces you record with the digital recorder you attach your microphone to.

If you were interested in recording in general, not in documenting what your group of exisiting players sound like "live" there would be other first steps that could be suggested. You might turn out out to be more interested in recording as things progress, who can tell, but this won't waste anything (having a small digital recorder can be handy in general).


*This "digital thing that works like a tape recorder" could be a modern tablet or smartphone too, with an interface that could use your microphone. I'm not sure that's clearly cheaper/better and some folks have limited and not easily expandable storage on theirs so I'm not suggesting that primarily.
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Old 03-31-2021, 10:46 AM
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ChuckS ChuckS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hovishead View Post
Hey there, I recently bought my first proper microphone https://www.akg.com/Microphones/Cond...C414+XLII.html. Probably overkill, but I have been playing for over 30 years and have recently been getting back into wanting to record my music so didn't want to get something too cheap.
...[snip]...
Here's a word of caution, whether you go the audio interface and computer route or the all in one recorder route:
As other's have said, your mics need phantom power, but some interface's / recorders may not have sufficient phantom power current output to power your particular mics. The AKG C414 require 4.5mA current, which is on the high end compared to many other mics. The mics are within the specs for phantom powering, but some devices (in particular audio interfaces that are USB powered verses line powered) will not deliver enough current for these mics.

A friend of my son brought over his pair of AKC C414s, and plugged them into my son's Focusrite 2i4 USB powered audio interface. They did not work. I then plugged the mics into my Motu Ultralite AVB interface (line powered) and all was fine. So, don't get a USB powered audio interface if you plan to use your AKG C414s.

Since you have already purchased some very nice, and expensive, mics, I'd suggest getting a recorder / audio interface that is not entry level (get somewhat equal quality levels). Like I mentioned above, I've got a Motu interface and it's been very good. I eventually added on to my setup (external preamps and ADC), so the Motu can grow with you if you eventually upgrade. I'd suggest you look at the Motu 624 (about $795) if you decide to go the audio interface / computer route. (Note: The 624 only has 2 preamps, how many mics will you be using?)
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  #11  
Old 03-31-2021, 06:58 PM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hovishead View Post
I'm not keen on spending a fortune, I am willing on spending up to $1000 more to get something that is decent enough to get good recordings out of.

Just want some advice on which audio interface to get. I don't want to buy something too cheap as I've heard this can defeat the point in having a good microphone, but then maybe the basic forusrite stuff is good enough for the mic I've purchased already.
You're going to need more than just an interface so the Scarlett line is as good as anything for the money, AFAIK. You're going to want another couple mics, stands, etc. and if you don't know this already, you'll discover quickly that your recordings will probably be less than you hope without acoustic treatment. The sound of your room, in my experience, is a bigger deal than which interface or mics you get.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:41 PM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
You're going to need more than just an interface so the Scarlett line is as good as anything for the money, AFAIK. You're going to want another couple mics, stands, etc. and if you don't know this already, you'll discover quickly that your recordings will probably be less than you hope without acoustic treatment. The sound of your room, in my experience, is a bigger deal than which interface or mics you get.
Unless one has a naturally good sounding room, which is rare, the best mics in the world will still sound bla in a bad sounding room.
There are cheap fixes. Goggle “DYI room treatment for recording”

Also, for a bit of education check out ..... (edit here is a simplified version of the below link
http://realtraps.com/art_basics.htm

https://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html


Loads of information overload so,take a deep breath and take you time
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