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  #16  
Old 05-19-2014, 10:19 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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I'm not sure I really get the question? Especially since any good mix on my home stereo or studio system sounds fine (albeit less dynamic) on my I phone even with just the built in speaker. Guess I'll have to listen closer.

And maybe I have not been paying attention but everybody I see listening on ear buds has a pair?

And when a playback system is actually putting out mono isn't it just putting putting both the L and R into one combo output?

The only thing I have noticed about trying to get a mix to sound good on limited playback systems is if the mix has lows like a kick drum or bass gtr. you seem to loose everything below about 150 hz so I tend to boost 100 to 250 a bit to keep the low instruments still audible
If its a 'good mix' chances are that it has been checked by the mixing engineer in mono so that it will sound good in mono - it isn't just 'chance'!

Two earbuds - not necessarily these days.

As to boosting the lows for 'limited playback systems' - umm ... you're boosting the lows on your mix, so now on a GOOD playback system the lows are too loud!
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2014, 12:32 PM
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If its a 'good mix' chances are that it has been checked by the mixing engineer in mono so that it will sound good in mono - it isn't just 'chance'!
no doubt

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Two earbuds - not necessarily these days.
interesting guess I haven't noticed. So would these be a specific design single earbud with a plug that merges a stereo jack on the phone into one channel ? Because just using one side of stereo pair I would think would be obvious and dreadful

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As to boosting the lows for 'limited playback systems' - umm ... you're boosting the lows on your mix, so now on a GOOD playback system the lows are too loud!
well not necessarily "too" loud but for sure a balancing act. But I found that If you can boost ( just the right amount) the EQ with a mid or narrow Q at the point where the limited system can reproduce you can then ever so slightly back off below that, and you can in fact get something that will work for both. Without being "too' heavy in the lows on the good system.
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Last edited by KevWind; 05-19-2014 at 01:03 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2014, 01:04 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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My original question was aimed at stereo recording rather than several instruments, and perhaps voice, each recorded mono, and then panned around post recording. An interesting drift anyway.
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Old 05-19-2014, 01:23 PM
janmulder janmulder is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
The only thing I have noticed about trying to get a mix to sound good on limited playback systems is if the mix has lows like a kick drum or bass gtr. you seem to loose everything below about 150 hz so I tend to boost 100 to 250 a bit to keep the low instruments still audible
ok ... this is not what the thread is about so I'll try to keep this post short

If you want instruments with lower frequencies to still be audible in smaller more limited systems the trick is to boost the harmonic frequencies as opposed to the fundamental. What I mean by this is, if you have a signal from an instrument like a double bass at about 40Hz that you want to sound good in a system that doesn't reproduce these frequencies you need to boost 80hz or 160hz or 320hz a bit ... not the 40Hz.

The human ear has a surprising way of hearing these higher harmonics frequencies and 'filling in the blanks' in such a way that it thinks it is hearing the original (but missing) lower frequencies.
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:14 PM
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ok ... this is not what the thread is about so I'll try to keep this post short

If you want instruments with lower frequencies to still be audible in smaller more limited systems the trick is to boost the harmonic frequencies as opposed to the fundamental. What I mean by this is, if you have a signal from an instrument like a double bass at about 40Hz that you want to sound good in a system that doesn't reproduce these frequencies you need to boost 80hz or 160hz or 320hz a bit ... not the 40Hz.

The human ear has a surprising way of hearing these higher harmonics frequencies and 'filling in the blanks' in such a way that it thinks it is hearing the original (but missing) lower frequencies.
Good point and yes indeed I get that, but I was not being that specific, just observing some general differences between full range and limited range playback
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  #21  
Old 05-19-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
My original question was aimed at stereo recording rather than several instruments, and perhaps voice, each recorded mono, and then panned around post recording. An interesting drift anyway.
Yes so in that. If the playback is mono from a stereo source isn't it still going to have both channels info just summed to mono ?
So other than whatever the dynamic limitations the playback system might have and loosing the stereo width, it wouldn't seem that any other "compromise" would be in play would it?
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2014, 05:16 PM
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Yes so in that. If the playback is mono from a stereo source isn't it still going to have both channels info just summed to mono ?
So other than whatever the dynamic limitations the playback system might have and loosing the stereo width, it wouldn't seem that any other "compromise" would be in play would it?
The mono sound will be affected by how much the stereo right and left tracks are in and out of phase with each other. Do you narrow your gamut of stereo sound choices in consideration of that, and if so to what degree?
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2014, 07:59 PM
Rick Shepherd Rick Shepherd is offline
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How much are you willing to compromise your stereo sound for mono compatibility, and why?
Why should anyone care about mono compatibility? I already know what your answer will be, but the question still stands.
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2014, 09:55 PM
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I suppose a DJ at a Club mixing Dance or Electronic tracks and such would be concerned about stereo mixes and how the Monitors are employed, how this may all translate to a "mono" scenario. But a Kid using just one earbud, or listening to music on his phone without buds or headphones. I don't think so. Not a valid argument there.

So many YT demo vids of products in use and the suggestion to listen to them on headphones or good monitors/speakers indicate many hope listeners will benefit not only one the quality of audio but in many cases a Stereo example of it. When I sent out a clip or song for those to audition they usually wait until they are capable of using some sort of Good system whatever that may be.
As far as MP3's and CD's I am not in control of how and what they are listened to it on. However I will produce my music how I feel it sounds best. Period. In my case it is Stereo. I remember when we jumped up from 16 bit recording to 24 bit and with higher sampling rates. Perhaps compression has come a long ways but I am still not happy with mp3's although I use them in my iPod while walking or exercising and not for the quality of the recording experience. I know that is another matter but I just threw that one out there.
Some interesting thoughts and realities discussed so far. I just don't feel I will put that much effort trying to sacrifice my sound so it sounds OK in mono. More important things to do with my time.
But hey that is just my opinion that I am entitled to.

Last edited by whitecloud; 05-19-2014 at 09:56 PM. Reason: misspelled
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2014, 12:24 AM
janmulder janmulder is offline
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Why should anyone care about mono compatibility? I already know what your answer will be, but the question still stands.
If any part of your audience listens using radio or TV you might consider it.

This SoS article sums it up quite nicely.

I think the more interesting question is "Why should anyone NOT care about mono compatibility?"
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2014, 01:28 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeBmusic View Post
Today's 'kids' are listening to music on their smartphones with one ear bud or the crappy little speaker - in mono.
Wait..so you're mixing for the kid who has crappy ear-buds and only one of them in at that? That's a tough gig
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2014, 04:15 AM
louparte louparte is offline
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Wait..so you're mixing for the kid who has crappy ear-buds and only one of them in at that? That's a tough gig
There's more than one of them out there.
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
The mono sound will be affected by how much the stereo right and left tracks are in and out of phase with each other. Do you narrow your gamut of stereo sound choices in consideration of that, and if so to what degree?
Ah! OK get it now . Honestly I mostly do what you described as not referring to (multiple instruments ) because of that I tend to limit the number of stereo tracks any way. But generally it is the acoustic gtr and perhaps one midi instrument that are stereo the rest mono. Also really only actually checked a mix in mono once or twice. In which perhaps by luck was not significantly different.
You have peaked my interest to back and listen to a bunch of my recording and see.
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2014, 07:45 AM
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There's more than one of them out there.
I think he meant one earbud
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  #30  
Old 05-20-2014, 10:25 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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The other place that your music could be played in mono - through most PA systems, and bar/club speaker systems.
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2017 Taylor 114ce-N
2012 Taylor 310ce
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73 Epiphone 6830E 6 string (made in 71?)

72 Fender Telecaster
Epiphone Dot Studio
Epiphone LP Jr
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