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  #31  
Old 03-28-2001, 02:54 PM
GordonHLau GordonHLau is offline
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Vince,

I'm also a big LJ fan. My favorite tunes of his that I like to play are "Lunar Eclipse" and his arrangements of Bach's "Jesus Joy of Man's Desire" and the Beatles' "In My Life".

The Bach song was the hardest to figure out since LJ transposed the tune to an Open G tuning. Took me weeks to figure out that tune but I feel his version is 'prettier' than the standard tuning version most classical guitarist use when playing this song.

GL
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  #32  
Old 03-29-2001, 09:22 AM
vince vince is offline
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GL,
Nice to hear another LJ fan.Watched his video yesterday, the one from Nashville" Melano", I think.The man can hammer those strings and he plays without nails. Nice Collins guitar with greatsound. I think he plays a Taylor Sig. presentation with maple back on the last song with Preston Reed. Reed plays an Ovation and, not to cause uproar, but it sounds really bad with the taylor.
How can he get the hammer, pull sound on Cobalt blue without an amp. I'm sure he plays without an anp sometimes. " All of Me" was also great on this video. Now that I've got his tab book, I'll be busy for along while and enjoying every second!! Worth the buy!!
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  #33  
Old 04-10-2001, 09:50 AM
JW JW is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erm:
Just a side note if I may,

JW, I recently saw the Hell Freezes over video and got to tell ya that I was completely impressed by the professionalism on that stage. Not to mention the quality of gear those guys brought around on that tour. Has anyone seen this and the guitars they used? Oh My.....

Don Felder and Joe Walsh are masters at picking the perfect guitar that fits that particular tune. Strats, Gibsons, Gretsch, Rics, Teles, all were used to their advantage. Each tune brought out a different guitar and every one was so righteous!

No Taylors, mostly Taks but that's alright, I'm sure their Taylors are at home.

They are living our dream!

I want them all!!!!! Oh man, another GAS attack...........
I have the video but was at the actual performance. ive never seen a better audiance. As they began to play the intro to Hotel California no one knew but once it was out the crowd went wild. After it was all over I knew I had to learn to play it this way. There is no sheet music for it and Ive watched the video and listened to the CD countless times in order to learn it. Ive nailed it pretty good but im still working on it but you will never match that performance. Everytime I think about it right up front the hair on the back of my neck stands up. Ive been to many an Eagles concert but none lives up to the "Hell freezes over" concert. These guys were all business and it showed. I took a new Takamine with me and have all the autographs on it from Joe Walsh to Don Henley. Don signed his name and wrote Hell froze over tonight and dated it. A lot of Takamine's got played that night. Best concert Ive ever been to in my life. I hope to see more. JW
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  #34  
Old 04-10-2001, 10:49 AM
mapletrees mapletrees is offline
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JW

The March 1995 issue of Guitar World magazine has a transcription of the Hell Freezes Over version of Hotel California....
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  #35  
Old 04-11-2001, 12:04 AM
JW JW is offline
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Man now I find out!! Ive been killing myself for years to get it right. Do you have it? Can you scan it, fax it or something. I would love to have a copy. Did it give a single guitar version or is it set up in multiple style. When I play it it sounds like three guitars, Classical,fingerstyle, and strumming. Quite difficult even after years of practice. But its that one peice that I never give up on. I love it! What a challange. Sounds best on my 910B but I have to go below the 12th fret so its easier on my K14C. JW
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  #36  
Old 04-11-2001, 08:54 AM
Bob Womack
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Let' see:

"Song for Ruth", a little fingerstyle thing in G involving the whole neck and chiming which I wrote for my wife while we were dating, twenty years ago. It sounds and plays wonderfully on the K14c. In fact, the first time my wife heard it on a K14c in a store, she said, "We simply have to get one of those for you!" Amen. The sweetness just gets better with time.

"Little Martha" by Duane Allman. It's in open D and I have most of the two parts condensed onto one guitar. It really sounds better and plays easier on my Conn F-27 rosewood dread, but it is respectable on a K14c. It's funny that this was a lullabye written for Duane's daughter, Galladriel, but it was named for a young girl buried in Rose Hill Cemetery in Macon, where he used to go to relax.

"All My Lovin'" by Lennon/McCartney is gorgeous in standard tuning.

I'm currently working up fingerstyle versions of "Can't Get It Out of My Head" by ELO, "Somewhere Over the Rainbow", and "Scotland the Brave", so I'm both a busy little beaver and someone surrounded by beautiful tunes.

Bob
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  #37  
Old 04-11-2001, 01:47 PM
mapletrees mapletrees is offline
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JW

That'd be copyright infringement...what would Mr. Rogers think of that?

You can order back issues from Guitar World...

I'd bet there's a TAB book for that entire concert....there's TAB books for everything it seems......
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  #38  
Old 04-16-2001, 04:14 PM
JayGon JayGon is offline
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For some reason, I keep finding myself playing Steven Curtis Chapman's classic "I will Be Here" on a pretty regular basis. It's good becasue it doesn't fall into the class of song you wouldn't want to play in guitar stores since most people don't know what it is.

Similar chording as in James Taylor's old "Shower the People," which I'm also drawn to frequently.

Jay
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  #39  
Old 04-17-2001, 05:37 PM
mapletrees mapletrees is offline
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Couldn't let "Shower the People" go by without saying something about intervals...

remember, intervals and prunes are the keys to your overall happiness...you'll be grumpy if your daily diet lacks either...

"Shower" is in the key of F but he capos at the 3rd fret and you play and think in terms of the key of D with a basic open D chord as the first true full chord of the tune.....(a D chord played with a capo at the 3rd fret actually represents an F chord...but again, as a guitar player you think D chord and key of D.....Just like when you play The Beatles' Here Comes the Sun with a capo at the 7th fret playing a basic D chord shape...you don't think of it as an A chord - even though it is...)

ASK if you don't understand the above stuff about the capo....

the nifty little opening to "Shower" is based upon intervals of a tenth in the key of D...(he throws in a couple of other notes - open 4th D string on the partial D and G chords and the note A on the 3rd string 2nd fret when he's playing the partial A chord)

Before the opening D chord (the first full chord of the song) he plays intervals that suggest the chords...

Em7, D/F#, G, A all in one measure...you know if you were to strum all four chords as full chord shapes it would sound clunky, awkward, non-flowing, choppy, and in a rotten nutshell that a squirrel would pass on - COMPLETELY beginnerish....you can do that on an Epiphone at Guitar Center if you're 13 years old.....but if you've got a Taylor guitar or an Olsen (Olson?...whatever James Taylor plays...they cost about 5k to 8k I understand) you want to get serious and use intervals in such situations....

so what the heck are tenths...

well, they're the same thing as intervals of a 3rd but spread out an additional octave...

so what does that mean....it means I megatype...

here's the D major scale...

D major = D E F# G A B C# D

when your just beginning to think in terms of intervals don't write the last note of the scale (here that would be the D, the octave)...you might end up getting confused in your counting when you 'wrap around'.....

so, I'll rewrite the D major scale as...

D E F# G A B C#

first the 3rds in the key of D..I'll do them up the 4th and 3rd strings here mostly...remember, they could be done out on any pair of strings...

Also remember that it might be best to first 'see' intervals of a 10th in the keys of C and G...that should be done in the Basic Music Theory posts by the end of today...

Anyways, we'll do 3rds in the key of D, then stretch them out to 10ths like James Taylor does in the intro of this song....

wordy, wordy, wordy....

here's the 3rds in the key of D...

D and F# this could be

x54xxx - a major 3rd
or
xxxx32
or
xx 12 11 xx
or
xxx77x

the other 3rds in the key of D lie (lay?) on the 4th and 3rd strings better...

E and G xx20xx - a minor 3rd

F# and A xx42xx - a minor 3rd

G and B xx54xx - a major 3rd

A and C# xx76xx - a major 3rd

B and D xx97xx - a minor 3rd

C# and E xx 11 9xx - a minor 3rd

then back to

D and F# xx 12 11 xx - a major 3rd

Now to change these 3rds to 10ths we need to spread them out by an octave - two different ways to do that.... we either:

a) raise the higher notes of our 3rds by an octave

or

b) lower the lower notes of our 3rds by an octave..

You have to keep in mind that the fretboard creates physical limitations...sometimes we can't in a practical way go up an octave and sometimes we can't go down an octave ...

onward...

We'll first raise the higher notes of our 3rds to get 10ths..

D(1) E(2) F#(3) - that's a third (take note of how we count - we include both the D and F# in our counting)


play x54xxx - that's D and F#

Now if we raise the F# by an octave....we'd get an interval of a 10th like this

D(1) E(2) F#(3) G(4) A(5) B(6) C#(7) D(8) E(9) F#(10)...we just took the scale out to the next highest F# - again, take note of how we count...


play x5xxx2 or xx0xx2 (as opposed to what we had before x54xxx) that's D and F# 'spread out' by an octave...I'm trying to use non-technical language here...

Make sense? Ask if it doesn't...

Let's do the rest of the intervals as tenths....

Look back at how we played E and G as thirds...which was

xx20xx

If we now raise the higher note by an octave we get...

xx2xx3 that's E on the 4th string still but the G is now played an octave up on the 1st string...

It helps to know the fretboard cold......
It helps to learn to read music....

Now let's write out all the intervals of a 10th in the key of D in one spot here...up the 4th and 1st strings...(could do it on other pairs of strings of course....)..they should sound very pretty on your well-intonated Taylor.....very chimey and delicate, too...

D and F# xx0xx2

E and G xx2xx3

F# and A xx4xx5

G and B xx5xx7

A and C# xx7xx9

B and D xx9xx 10

C# and E xx 11 xx 12

back to D and F# as xx 12 xx 14

An example of something involving these intervals....

Play A7 to D the following way...don't just hit clunky beginner chords

play the open A 5th string
then hit the interval
xx5xx7
let the open A keep ringing and slide the interval up to
xx7xx9
then hit a partial D chord
xx0 11 x 10...ripple the partial D chord

get it to flow and ring...the rhythm is up to you......

try A7 to D this way..

let the open A 5th string ring out and play these intervals
xx 11 xx 12
then
xx 9 xx 10
then
xx7xx9
then
D chord as
xx 0 7 7 10

again, do it with some sort of flow and ripple the last chord.....try throwing in the open A bass with each interval along the way....you've heard this type of stuff...

You're 'outlining' the A7 chord instead of hitting a beginner chord...sounds much prettier if done with good rhythm...

Remember...we were going to play out tenths in the key of D by dropping our low notes of our thirds by an octave...let's do it...it's what JT

Note that I can't drop the low note of x54xxx without dropping the tuning of the 6th string...sometimes the fretboard limits us ....that's fine..

So,

play D and F# as x5xx7x - again, you can't get to a lower D without retuning....we'll bump the F# up an octave instead

but E and G...which was

xx20xx becomes 0xx0xx by lowering the note E on the 4th string by an octave down to the low open E string....we have an interval of a tenth now...count through the scale and ask if something is not clicking...and remember...this would be easier to 'see' in a key that lies differently on the fretboard...

I'll write out the rest of the intervals as 10ths

F# and A 2xx2xx

G and B 3xx4xx

now right here again note that you can play things out all over the fretboard.....G and B could have been

3xxx0x instead of 3xx4xx different strings have different qualities....perhaps you prefer one over the other...perhaps one is easier to get to at a particular time....learn that fretboard...

Before we go on try strummin' on a basic D chord....and where you might do a simple bass run going from

0xxxxx
to
2xxxxx
to
the G chord 320003

try

0xx0xx
to
2xx2xx
to
3xxx0x
and then the strums on the G chord...obviously you've got to make it flow and not lose a beat (nor create one!) somewhere...sounds very different though...sounds more like Paul Simon all of a sudden.....

where were we...

I guess we're up to A and C#

A and C# 5xx6xx or x0xx2x

B and D 7xx7xx

C# and E 9xx9xx

then back to D and F#....maybe do them as
10 xx 11 xx this time...


gotta run....




Still editing.................haven't gotten to the ding a ling song yet really.......

well I guess we have really...if you look up above in this reply (near the top) around the word "nifty"....

JT plays in the intro of this song...

0xx0xx
2xx2xx
3xxx0x
x0xx2x

with just a couple other notes added in (look above and/or buy the authentic TAB book for his greatest hits album - or just listen to the recording)...the instructional point here is not to try and teach you how to play a JT song over the internet - good grief!...., but rather give an illustration as to how a good player like JT uses intervals to slide around the neck and play partial chords that create movement instead of big, chunky, and plodding full chords...

the interval 0xx0 is E with G, that's E and it's minor 3rd, and that's enough to tell your ears that they are hearing part of some E minorish chord (your ears haven't heard enough to know if it's going to be a plain E minor, or Em7, or Em9, or Em11, or whatever....but they know they aren't getting any sort of E majorish chord...learn to say more with less...in life, too....I'm still working on that... )

the 2xx2xx is F# with A but what he is really playing is a partial D chord with F# in the bass...note that a D chord is the notes D, F# and A...he's just playing the F# and A here...(throws in open 4th D string to round out chord - listen to the recording to hear how the interval is played separately)

he moves up to 3xxx0x..a partial G chord....a G chord is the notes G, B, and D and with this interval he is playing the G and B...(throws in the open 4th string again to round out the chord...listen to how it comes in on the recording...again, the interval is separate)

he moves up to x0xx2x...a partial A chord...an A chord is the notes A, C#, and E...here he is just playing A and its major 3rd which is C#....again enough to make your ears hear something 'majorish'...if you were to hear x0xx1x which is A with C (A with its minor 3rd - or 10th - however you want to view it - that would be enough to hear the sound of A minor)...again more with less......he also throws in the note A on the 3rd string 2nd fret to...but again listen to how he plays the interval separately....

Then he gets to the bass note of the opening D chord (and then picks out the first full chord) a half beat early (we call that anticipation...you can think of it as a form of syncopation - just doing something of interest on the offbeat where you perhaps didn't expect it...makes the music move along....get the fingerpicking instructional books I've suggested and you'll learn how to incorporate that simple but hugely important little rhythmic tool into your playing very well.....

So anyways, JT manages to move from the Em (the ii chord in the key of D) up to the A (the V chord in the key of D) in this intro without actually playing a chord in a traditional sense until he comes to the D chord (the I chord in the key of D)

a typical and often heard ii-V-I progession played atypically (sp?)

it's curious to note that the chorus of the song is just a repetitive ii-V (Em to A or A7)....with some other stuff thrown in of course...bass movement, diminished chord, altered chord...but the chorus being Em to A just like the intro makes it all seem very well thought out and complete......

I've gotta go eat some prunes..

[ 04-17-2001: Message edited by: mapletrees ]

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  #40  
Old 04-17-2001, 11:23 PM
Johno Johno is offline
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Gotta' go with Bob ... Little Martha (Duane Allman)is my absolute favorite fingerstyle piece. No words, so I don't have to sing! All my friends appreciate that!
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  #41  
Old 04-18-2001, 07:51 AM
mapletrees mapletrees is offline
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Little Martha?

You can't stop this Love Locomotive of Intervals...I'll be right back...3rds all over the place...

I'll just add that the Beginning book of the National Guitar Workshop's Fingerstyle series of books/cd's has an excellent section on intervals and does out a couple of simple but pretty tunes to illustrate their use....common, common, must know stuff...they cover 3rds, 6ths , and 10ths...

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  #42  
Old 04-18-2001, 10:20 AM
mapletrees mapletrees is offline
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Little Martha was recorded in Open E tuning (and according to the issue of Guitar World Acoustic I'm looking at was recorded in the studio almost a half -step above that...I don't have a recording of the tune but certainly have heard it off and on over the years.....be careful if you're trying to tune up to the recording.....that would be too much tension on the neck I think...you're probably better off to think tune down more towards open D tuning (that's an equivalent tuning), use a capo somewhere and slightly retune to bring yourself to the correct pitch...

Standard tuning is E A D G B E (we always start with the low string when we list off a tuning...make SURE you remember that!

Open E tuning is E B E G# B E...do you see how we got there? You raise the 5th string by a whole step, A to B (2 fret's worth), you raise the 4th string by a whole step, D to E (again, 2 fret's worth), and you raise the 3rd string by a half step, G to G# (that's just one fret's worth)...

the advantage is that now the open strings of your guitar form an E chord (an E major chord is made up of the first, third, and 5th notes of the E major scale...that's E, G#, and B)...we like chords with no fretting fingers necessary

the only problem is that all that tuning up is not so great for your guitar...especially if the studio recording is made even higher than that and you're trying to tune up and match the recording...

Note that we could equivalently get to this open E tuning the following way...by using open D tuning with a capo....

OPEN D Tuninig...

Instead of tuning the 5th, 4th, and 3rd strings up...we'll tune down and then use a capo...

Take your standard tuned guitar which is

E A D G B E and

tune 6th(the low string) from E down to D
tune 3rd ffrom G down to F#
tune 2nd from B down to A
tune 1st from E down to D..

that gives us from low to high

D A D F# A D and since the notes D, F#, and A grouped together form a D chord we call this open D tuning...you get a D chord by just strumming the open strings...

It's important to note that Open D and Open E tuning are 'equivalent'....all of the open strings in open E tuning are exactly one whole step higher than the open strintgs in open D tuning...you could say that open D tuning is just a lower version of open E tuning.... therefore if you tune to open D and plop a capo at the second fret...it's essentially now open E tuning....different feeling of course because you're up two additional frets..you may or may not prefer that...but better for the neck, top, and bridge of your guitar probably......


Anyways...this tune gives you the perfect chance to see how the 'shape' or 'layout' of intervals can change when you move to an alternate tuning....some interval shapes might stay the same, some might switch...it all depends on how the relationship between the strings was changed when you went to the alternate tuning...

we'll get to it...

that National Guitar Workshop Beginning Fingerstyle book shows you some good examples of intervals within open G tuning....for example 10ths played on the 5th and 2nd strings need to be rethought out as compared to standard tuning since open G tuning involves dropping your 5th string a whole step from A to G while leaving the 2nd string as the same old B...the relationhsip between the strings is changed, so your interval and chord shapes must change accordingly...it's not difficult...figuring out your spouse is more difficult...

Hey.....If aliens hopped out from behind the bushes and demanded that you immediately demonstrate the use of intervals in open G tuning (in a cool way) or face the prospect of vaporization.........your fate?

Get the fingerpicking books I've suggested....

Good bang for the buck....nobody likes to get vaporized.....

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  #43  
Old 04-18-2001, 06:43 PM
mapletrees mapletrees is offline
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I'm looking at Guitar World Acoustic, Issue #27, 1998 at their transription of Little Martha....they do it out as two guitars arranged for one...

..anyone know if on the recording the 2 guitars essentially do the same stuff or do they have totally different parts? I don't have a recording of this....

anyways, intervals of a 3rd on string pairs 4 and 3, and 3 and 2, are used throughtout this song...

We'll write out thirds in standard tuning up those string pairs and then do it as it would have to change to conform to the open E tuning....

gotta know your intervals.....tune after tune after tune.....you'll see them....and even more importantly, they are the basic builiding blocks of chords in our musical system...must know stuff...

Here's the E major scale...

E major = E F# G# A B C# D# and we won't write the last E....

actually, I'll write out an interval in standard tuning, then write "becomes blah blah" to show how the interval changes shape when you move to open E tuning....

remember, all of the fret numbers are relative to either the nut or the capo, (regardless of where you plop your capo)

E and G# xx21xx becomes xx00xx

make sure you've got that straight

xx21xx represents E and G# in standard tuning

and

xx00xx represents E and G# in open E tuning....

and also, if you've loosened up your strings sufficiently so that you're actually down more towards open D tuning, that's fine....but we still think in terms of open E...I'm still thinking in terms of the E major scale....the song's in the key of E as far as my fingers and brain are concerned no matter how far I tune down (or up), no matter where I plop the capo...

onward...

F# and A xx42xx becomes xx21xx

G# and B xx64xx becomes xx43xx

A and C# xx76xx becomes xx55xx

B and D# xx98xx becomes xx77xx

C# and E xx 11 9 xx becomes xx98xx

D# and F# xx 13 11 xx becomes xx11 10xx

back to E and G# xx 14 13 xx becomes xx12 12 xx

I hope we don't have typos..

look for some of those intervals in the tune... they're all over the place...remember the fret numbers are relative to the end of the guitar, whether it's the nut or a capo...

I suppose you can find the intervals up strings 3 and 2....if you can't, ask.....
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