outboard DACs for digital listening

[dnf777]

I never realized the limitations of Digital listening through iPhone, iPad, even my Macbook. I have some decent headphones as well as a Bose system for my laptop, but was never quite happy with the quality, but thought it was as good as it gets with the new "lossless" audio from Apple Music and other platforms.

Then I read about the external DAC boxes and decided to try one with my portable devices, and got the iFi hipDAC2. WOW! So much more clarity, separation, and pure tones than I ever imagined! I was worried it would be just a volume and bass booster, but I was very, very wrong!

So impressed, I immediately bought a Dragonfly Cobalt inline DAC for my macbook/bose and again was totally blown away! Most all devices with a phone jack will have an internal DAC, but to keep prices down are often limited to 24bit/44kHz. About CD quality. the external DACs with dedicated audio chips really open up sound and depth that is easily noticeable. They pull the full sampling size and rate from a USB port and convert to audio with a superior chip, as were most internal chips shortcut this process.

I post this in case I'm not the only one who was unaware of these great little devices, and what they really do.

[rick-slo]

I have been using for listening on my computer digital out to a Mytek DAC onto Grado 225 open back headphones. Glorious.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I have been using for listening on my computer digital out to a Mytek DAC onto Grado 225 open back headphones. Glorious.

Yeah, Im kind of embarrassed that I knew almost nothing about this simple, relatively inexpensive, upgrade to listening.

[srick]

Dave - thanks for posting this. I have an Amazon gift certificate just waiting to be used. This sounds like the perfect fit!

[ronmac]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I have been using for listening on my computer digital out to a Mytek DAC onto Grado 225 open back headphones. Glorious.

That is a great chain to listen to. I also own the Grado 225i open back headphones, usually driven by a RME Babyface Pro. I also have a Sound Devices USBPre2 that I find even more detailed than the RME.

Converters are not the only important part of the output chain, in fact one could argue these days that most modern DACs have very good converters. The headphone amplifier section is likely more influential at this point.

Case in point, my RME has more modern AD/DA conversion than the decade older Sound Devices product. I have often simultaneously fed both devices an identical digital signal and found the USBPre2 to be the superior choice. The converter specs tip in favour of RME, but I feel the SD has a headphone amp that offers more "weight" and detail. It is subtle, but discernible.

When I A/B my Monitoring chain (Bryston amp into Dyanaudio speakers) using the same test I do not detect the same difference.

[dnf777]

Very true about the amp section. For my laptop (a MacBook pro2022) The Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt is a simple inline DAC/amp combined. it optimizes the internal amp's volume, so you can still use your computer or speaker's volume control as before. its like its not even there, except for the glowing LED dragonfly (color indicates input sample rate/depth). The sound is razor sharp and crystal clear like I've never heard before. At any volume.

Hi Rick! Hope all is well in mod land! Yeah, so far, my Dragonfly Cobalt is the best Amazon purchase this year for me. (Crutchfield rated this as a 'best of 2024" and is on backorder. Amazon had a few left on the shelf)

[srick]

Dave -

I just ordered a Cobalt yesterday and am anxiously awaiting it*! We'll see how it sounds with my AKG 240s. Some time ago, I ripped all of my CDs in lossless format and then sent the discs, via a visiting priest, to Nigeria. (Somewhere in Africa, they're listening to Toby Walker )

But whenever I listened to my music collection after that, I was not impressed. So again, I am really looking forward to the experience.

One of my patients had a dedicated high end listening room - that would never fly in this house. Headphones it is!

best,

Rick

* Darn, there were a lot of DACs to choose from!

[Rockysdad]

Not to derail but, not being aware of this stuff ( DAC's) upon reading this thread, I googled and noticed these devices have USB A, is there a USB C? as my Mac Air and I phone are USB C ports?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Rockysdad

Not to derail but, not being aware of this stuff ( DAC's) upon reading this thread, I googled and noticed these devices have USB A, is there a USB C? as my Mac Air and I phone are USB C ports?

Check into using a USB A to USB C adapter.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by Rockysdad

Not to derail but, not being aware of this stuff ( DAC's) upon reading this thread, I googled and noticed these devices have USB A, is there a USB C? as my Mac Air and I phone are USB C ports?

Good question! I read quite a bit on this, but it is actually pretty easy. If your computer is usb-a, youre set. Otherwise just order a usb-a to usb-c adapter. They ar3 all over amazon from $3 and up.

If you want to use with an iPhone or iPad, you’ll need a usb-lightening adapter, which is a little more at $29.

The Dragonfly cobalt comes with a really nice usb-c adapter.

[srick]

Well the Dragonfly Cobalt just arrived, and it is meeting all expectations.

Back in the day (of analog stereo) I had a pair of Stax electrostatic headphones that sounded phenomenal. The Cobalt and the AKG phones are surely their equal, despite my aging ears.

I would say separation, clarity and lack of noise are phenomenal. I think the sound may be a bit compressed, but I'll have to give a listen to some of my classical albums to really assess the dynamic range.

Maybe the bottom line is that for the first time in a long time I feel like I am in my own sonic world and am part of the music.

Happy camper!
----------------

PS - after the first day: My Samsung is a perfect companion for this dongle. The sound is exemplary and very close to what I remember it should sound like from the analog days. This afternoon I was listening to Chick Corea and Return to Forever's 'Light as a Feather' album; the castanets on "Spain" jumped right out of the headphones.

It doesn't do much for the iPad or the iPhone except maybe increase the volume a bit. On the Dell Optiplex desktop, the jury's out. As far as I'm concerned, having found one setup with superior audio quality was well worth the price of admission.

[Mycroft]

Ok, let me see if I follow the chain. Your source is the hard drive in your computer/laptop. (Or streamed music like ITunes/Spotify/Amazon Music) You play the music using the app installed on the device. Sound outputs by optical, USB or Lightening to the DAC, which converts it to analog and plays through the DAC headphone amp?

Wouldn't the HD or the player app effect the quality of sound? Would it be possible run an external HD directly into the DAC?

I currently have sennheiser RS 195 wireless connected to the desktop with an optical cable that has very good sound. But I also have a pair of old school AKG 240s dating from the 80s that I'd like to put to some use. Hence the questions.

Merci.

[dnf777]

Im only familiar with mac/iOS systems, but this device pulls the raw digital signal from streaming, hard drive, or thumbstick (wherever your computer or phone gets its 1s and 0s) and bypasses your devices internal DAC, which typically cant convert the full high res files into audio. I noticed “fuzzy” volume spikes and quiet noise before using this. I think that is a type of digital clipping, when a files depth/rate exceeds a chips ability to process.

[srick]

I can confirm Dave’s take on the signal chain. The system bypasses what we used to call the sound card, and gets its digits straight from the computer bus. I have played around with the output sampling rate setting in Windows 11, and it does make subtle differences.

What has surprised me, and not in a good way, is that now I can hear some of the less than perfect transcriptions on my ripped CDs. Some of this could have occurred when the companies originally transcribed analog material to digital, or some of it could have occurred when I transcribed my CDs into FLAC. In the earlier days of the digital world, I had heard of this happening, but I have never had a system that was so sensitive that I could “easily” hear the flaws. But, let me add, that a lot of my material sounds really great.

The weak point in the system right now is probably the AKG240 headphones, and there has to be a way to equalize the sound more to my liking. It’s on the list of things to look into. New headphones are not high on the list, especially because it is impossible these days to properly audition a pair of high end headphones.

[elmaestro]

As an musician and audio engineer first, I have been interested in going down the road of finding the ideal setup for analog and digital playback. I started very small and made incremental upgrades over the years. I often used the headphone amps in my various recording interfaces and they were okay. My first standalone DAC/headphone amp was the AudioEngine D1.

In my studio/office I have a speaker system and a headphone system. The speaker system has an older Schiit Bifrost (Sigma-Delta) DAC, Rogue Audio Sphinx 2 integrated amp, and ATC SCM10 monitors. My headphone amp is the SPL Phonitor xe (with DAC). I use balanced cabling with my main phones, the Audeze LCD-X and Sennheiser HD800S. Also in rotation are Senn HD600, HD580, Grado RS1, Grado SR60, and the venerable Sony MDR-7506 (my favorite tracking phones).

My main system in the living room has equally-good analog and digital capabilities and I've kind of gone off the deep end. The digital path is a Roon Nucleus music server feeding a Mutec MC3+ USB re-clocker (with 10MHz reference master clock), which feeds a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC via AES/EBU. Then it's analog XLR out to a Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp and then out to a pair of Harbeth M40.1 loudspeakers.

There's no doubt that a DAC can make huge improvements and they can sound quite different from eachother. What I've found is that the way the unit handles the analog signal after it's converted is where you'll find most of the sonic differences, not the kind of chip it uses.

There are some fabulous and affordable products available nowadays.