'cross training' with classical. Tips? Overthinking?

[JParrilla]

So I may be overthinking this, but lately I have been trying to figure out how to best merge my classical training with my 'other' playing. I have been extremely into classical guitar lately, and have begun learning to read guitar notation and using a method book (Bradford Werners). A lot of the classical method is built around proper technique and putting the proper rules in place so that we can play more technical and beautiful pieces over time.

Along side this, I want to of course continue playing the stuff that I have always loved. I really love playing steel string celtic/scottish music and other less 'formal' tunes. I tend to learn songs in these genres that I definitely cannot sight read (my sight reading skills are basically raw beginner), so I learn via tabs and memorization as well as my ears. These tend to be less formal, and more 'fun' (hard to describe, not that I dont think classical is fun, just less precise I guess).

Do you have any tips for doing both of these things, but not allowing potential bad habits from one thing affect my progression in classical studying? Should I be trying to apply some classical techniques to all of my playing to help bring up my technique overall? Should I just mentally separate the 2 things and have my classical time be classical time... and go crazy when Im not in that mode?

This may be overthinking, but considering how important proper playing is in classical music, I am trying to make sure I dont hinder my progress.. but at the same time I am not willing to give up playing steel string in other styles.

[mc1]

I think perhaps, yes, you are overthinking this. I tend to be a technique purist, so keep that in mind.

First of all, no matter how far you progress upon the classical road, I don't think you will ever lose your steel string skills.

I think it is important not to develop bad habits with the classical. The obvious recommendation is to find a teacher, but in lieu of that, simply pay attention to the efficiency and ergonomics of your technique. Classical guitar technique is there because it is the most efficient, not for pedantic reasons.

Tips are to listen to your music, watch yourself play, watch and learn from the masters, and work on tone and technique.

I also think that as you learn to read music and get more familiar with sheet music, you will find it just as fun. Playing around with alternate fingerings, different tones, and exploring the huge repertoire is a blast, or at least enjoyable. Just seeing how someone else does a fingering can lead to fun "aha" moments.

If at some point you want to incorporate classical technique into your steel string playing (e.g. artificial harmonics, tremolo), that will be great. And if you decide to incorporate steel string techniques (e.g. thumb over neck) to the classical, that will be your choice.

You can go far with an aware mind and books and videos. But even a few lessons with a good teacher may save you a lot of time on your journey.

[Alytw]

What about working on a song or two from David Russell's album is addition to your technique practice?

You probably know a bunch of the songs:
http://www.davidrussellguitar.com/in...age-of-the-sea

For example, this is one of his arrangements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=8p3muqD1l0U

Also, if you can, find a teacher. It will help tremendously with learning the basics.

Adam

[JParrilla]

Originally Posted by mc1

I think perhaps, yes, you are overthinking this. I tend to be a technique purist, so keep that in mind.

First of all, no matter how far you progress upon the classical road, I don't think you will ever lose your steel string skills.

I think it is important not to develop bad habits with the classical. The obvious recommendation is to find a teacher, but in lieu of that, simply pay attention to the efficiency and ergonomics of your technique. Classical guitar technique is there because it is the most efficient, not for pedantic reasons.

Tips are to listen to your music, watch yourself play, watch and learn from the masters, and work on tone and technique.

I also think that as you learn to read music and get more familiar with sheet music, you will find it just as fun. Playing around with alternate fingerings, different tones, and exploring the huge repertoire is a blast, or at least enjoyable. Just seeing how someone else does a fingering can lead to fun "aha" moments.

If at some point you want to incorporate classical technique into your steel string playing (e.g. artificial harmonics, tremolo), that will be great. And if you decide to incorporate steel string techniques (e.g. thumb over neck) to the classical, that will be your choice.

You can go far with an aware mind and books and videos. But even a few lessons with a good teacher may save you a lot of time on your journey.

Thanks a lot for the advice, makes a lot of sense. The recurring theme I hear many times is about getting a teacher, and trust me I know its true. As soon as covid restrictions quiet down I plan to find a teacher and do as many lessons as my budget allows for. Sometimes its hard to understand the long term reasons for some of the specific classical rules, especially when you are so new. I even made another thread here regarding the importance of not repeating plucking fingers. Its been quite difficult for me adjusting having played electric and steel string acoustic for so long. I am learning such simple classical songs via sight reading, and my hands just want to revert to the way they would have played before (repeating fingering, thumb over the neck, etc). I guess this is why I was wondering if I would need to possibly even set down the steel string for a bit if I really wanted to improve at classical.

Originally Posted by Alytw

What about working on a song or two from David Russell's album is addition to your technique practice?

You probably know a bunch of the songs:
http://www.davidrussellguitar.com/in...age-of-the-sea

For example, this is one of his arrangements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=8p3muqD1l0U

Also, if you can, find a teacher. It will help tremendously with learning the basics.

Adam

Oh yes, I know many of these for sure. I actually got into classical slowly after listening to a lot of Scottish tunes by Stephen Wake https://stephenwake.bandcamp.com/

He does a mix of nylon and steel music. Incorporating Celtic music into my classical study is definitely in the plans.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Good for you. These musical styles are not at all mutually exclusive. You can do both. Absolutely. It's all good.
A lot depends on the right hand. Ideally, you’d play steel with thumb and fingerpicks, and classical guitar without, using well shaped nails and classical technique, on a nylon string guitar if you’re serious about it.
Does that describe you or your intentions at this time?
I'm in the same mode as you. I play both, but I'm more of a nylon player with classical nails, and don't use picks, so it does somewhat limit the choices I make for steel based pieces. I have to be more choosy with the material.
It's a compromise. Ideally, I'd be able to use fingerpicks, but I find them really awkward. I haven't given them much of a chance though. Maybe I should. But I'm quite happy with nylon, and actually find it works in many steel based pieces. Maybe a discussion for another thread.

[JParrilla]

Originally Posted by AndreF

Good for you. These musical styles are not at all mutually exclusive. You can do both. Absolutely. It's all good.
A lot depends on the right hand. Ideally, you’d play steel with thumb and fingerpicks, and classical guitar without, using well shaped nails and classical technique, on a nylon string guitar if you’re serious about it.
Does that describe you or your intentions at this time?
I'm in the same mode as you. I play both, but I'm more of a nylon player with classical nails, and don't use picks, so it does somewhat limit the choices I make for steel based pieces. I have to be more choosy with the material.
It's a compromise. Ideally, I'd be able to use fingerpicks, but I find them really awkward. I haven't given them much of a chance though. Maybe I should. But I'm quite happy with nylon, and actually find it works in many steel based pieces. Maybe a discussion for another thread.

Soo, my guitar journey started purely electric with a pick over a decade ago in high school. Purely metal, rock, shredding, etc. I switched over almost totally to acoustic a few years back. I dropped the pick almost right away and adopted a flesh picking technique by learning folk and celtic style. I occasionally strum with a pick if I want to strum loud, but I never use a pick anymore to play melodic tunes.

I started working through a classical method book about a month ago, but I am still using my steel string and picking with flesh of my fingers I am in the market for a nylon string as soon as I find one that meets my needs/budget. I am trying to get one ASAP.

My long term goal is to be able to improve in both the classical/nylon string world but also continue to improve my looser/percussive steel string style. I still love listening to guys like Andy Mckee, Tony McManus, Tommy Emmanuel, etc. But at the same time I would love to be able to play classical at a high level. Very ambitious I know... but what else do I have going on?!

[TBman]

Originally Posted by solidus

So I may be overthinking this, but lately I have been trying to figure out how to best merge my classical training with my 'other' playing. I have been extremely into classical guitar lately, and have begun learning to read guitar notation and using a method book (Bradford Werners). A lot of the classical method is built around proper technique and putting the proper rules in place so that we can play more technical and beautiful pieces over time.

Along side this, I want to of course continue playing the stuff that I have always loved. I really love playing steel string celtic/scottish music and other less 'formal' tunes. I tend to learn songs in these genres that I definitely cannot sight read (my sight reading skills are basically raw beginner), so I learn via tabs and memorization as well as my ears. These tend to be less formal, and more 'fun' (hard to describe, not that I dont think classical is fun, just less precise I guess).

Do you have any tips for doing both of these things, but not allowing potential bad habits from one thing affect my progression in classical studying? Should I be trying to apply some classical techniques to all of my playing to help bring up my technique overall? Should I just mentally separate the 2 things and have my classical time be classical time... and go crazy when Im not in that mode?

This may be overthinking, but considering how important proper playing is in classical music, I am trying to make sure I dont hinder my progress.. but at the same time I am not willing to give up playing steel string in other styles.

Stephen Wake has an entire cd on Bandcamp - Scottish Lochs, which he plays on nylon. The notation/tab is available there for a donation.

https://stephenwake.bandcamp.com/alb...ab-pdf-booklet

[JParrilla]

Originally Posted by TBman

Stephen Wake has an entire cd on Bandcamp - Scottish Lochs, which he plays on nylon. The notation/tab is available there for a donation.

https://stephenwake.bandcamp.com/alb...ab-pdf-booklet

Ah yes I own the discography. Only thing is that he uses a very odd tuning on that album (at least to me). CGDGCD. It turns my low E into a floppy mess. My guitar is already setup a bit too low so that tuning is kinda rough. The album is great though.