The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-19-2008, 06:32 AM
steve617 steve617 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 208
Default Archtop acoustic playability

Last night while at Books a million I ran upon a Instruction book on swing guitar, me as a advanced beginner I was intrigued about it and I figured I could get some uses on some new chords and learn something different. So far in just a couple hours I really like the book. So it got me thinking. In my life I have played 2 archtop acoustics both was very old one was probably a 30's or 40's gretch and the other was a no name. Both owners did not play they just had acquired them. Anyway both to what I remember was hard to chord and really did not have much of a tone but I know one of those strings had been on there 25 years. lol Anyway my question is if one is set up properly especially like the Godin 5th avenue would they be much easier to play. Thanks for any info.
__________________
Steve's Songs
A&L Cedar Burst AMI Parlor
Ibanez ATK 300
Epiphone ej200 sce
J Navarro nc-61
Yamaha fg-730
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-19-2008, 06:40 AM
HHP HHP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 29,351
Default

A well set up arch top will play as well or better than a comparable flat top. True carved top are gonna cost you. Godin is releasing a new 5Th Avenue that looks good, all laminate but supposed to sound good.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-19-2008, 07:16 AM
JohnZ JohnZ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,095
Default

It really depends on what you want an archtop to do. If you're going to play electrically then you might consider a laminate top, for they have less volume, more sustain, and less feedback. A carved solid top with a floating pickup is great sound too (lots of overtones) when plugged in....just harder to manage. Acoustically, solid carved tops sound best hands down.

Like any guitar, a good setup makes a big difference but the big advantage is the adjustable bridge, which will allow you in minutes to go from light to heavy strings when needed. My Eastman 810CE is using Elixir electric heavies, which are about the same guage as acoustic lights, so it's a compromise on that guitar. My Gibson ES150D runs electric lights, and my '42 L50 (strictly acoustic) uses Elixir acoustic nanoweb lights.

If you can, find a store that has a good selection of archtops and try them out, you might get hooked.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-19-2008, 07:59 AM
rforman15 rforman15 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: we stopped over in Santa Fe
Posts: 2,384
Default

It's hard to find "true" acoustic archtops, but the good ones sound incredible and are genuine acoustic instruments. I've owned several myself. I had two vintage Epiphone archtops (Spartan and Triumph Regent) and a vintage Gibson archtop (L-4). All are great guitars. I sold them all and ordered a new Collings archtop. usually it takes a heavier gauge string to get the top moving on an archtop. Secondly, many archtops are built to be played plugged in. These instrument generally do not have a great pure acoustic tone. New archtops are running a small fortune. Jury is still out on the new Godin, I haven't played one yet. It's not a carved top, but rather a pressed top, and probably laminate woods. still it might have potential, have to try one.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-19-2008, 09:29 AM
Livingston's Avatar
Livingston Livingston is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Winchester, CA
Posts: 4,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve617 View Post
In my life I have played 2 archtop acoustics both was very old one was probably a 30's or 40's gretch and the other was a no name. Both owners did not play they just had acquired them. Anyway both to what I remember was hard to chord and really did not have much of a tone but I know one of those strings had been on there 25 years. lol Anyway my question is if one is set up properly especially like the Godin 5th avenue would they be much easier to play. Thanks for any info.
As others have already mentioned, an archtop can be setup to play as smoothly as any other type of guitar.

Tone wise, they are traditionally designed to accomplish a different sound than flat tops. The original archtops were designed as orchestral instruments; rhythm guitar at some point replaced the banjo in the rhythm section of early jazz ensembles. The large body archtop provided more unplugged volume than a flat top and was voiced to cut through through a typical horn based orchestra.

Modern day archtops can range in tone from their original design to a more modern, buttery, mellow, deep sounding tone.

One explanation as to why the old guitars you tried were difficult to play might be that they were setup with very high action intentionally. Old acoustic archtops were often used to comp four-to-the-bar rhythm changes in country swing or jazz big band music. High action (i.e. strings set high off the sound board) produced a punchier, louder acoustic sound to help cut through the rest of the band.

Freddie Greene, long time rhythm guitarist (50+ years) in the Count Basie Orchestra had his guitars setup in just such a way - i.e. very high action (3/8" at the 12th fret!!!) and very heavy gauge strings (.014 - .060). Many guitarists who saw Freddie's setup said his guitars were unplayable except in the hands of Freddie Greene.

One other reason that might explain why the guitars you played were not very playable could be that they were not properly maintained.
__________________
“Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself”
— Miles Davis.

Last edited by Livingston; 04-19-2008 at 12:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-19-2008, 11:52 AM
JohnZ JohnZ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livingston View Post
As others have already mentioned, an archtop can be setup to play as smoothly as any other type of guitar.

Tone wise, they are traditionally designed to accomplish a different sound than flat tops. The original archtops were designed as orchestral instruments; rhythm guitar at some point replaced the banjo in the rhythm section of early jazz ensembles. The large body archtop provided more unplugged volume than a flat top and was voiced to cut through through a typical horn based orchestra.

Modern day archtops can range in tone from their original design to a more modern, buttery, mellow, deep sounding tone.

One explanation as to why the old guitars you tried were difficult to play might be that they were setup with very high action intentionally. Old acoustic archtops were often used to comp four-to-the-bar rhythm changes in country swing or jazz big band music. High action (i.e. strings set high off the sound board) produced a punchier, louder acoustic sound to help cut through the rest of the band.

Freddie Greene, long time rhythm guitarist (50+ years) in the Count Basie Orchestra had his guitars setup in just such a way - i.e. very high action (3/8" at the 12th fret!!!) and very heavy gauge strings (.014 - .060). Many guitarists who saw Freddie's setup said his guitars were unplayable except in the hands of Freddie Greene.

One other explanation that the guitars you played were not very playable could be they were not properly maintained.
Or Eddie Lang for that matter. Those guys played with big strings and high action and could cut through an orchestra acoustically. Most likely though, the necks were out on the guitars he played.

Another thing that can be done to make an archtop sound a little more like a flattop is to go to a solid bridge...but most want the other sound.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-19-2008, 05:45 PM
Samboragod Samboragod is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 167
Default

I currently have a made in Japan Yamaha hollowbody and it sounds great unplugged and plugged in. Yea it isnt loud unplugged but it does have a nice sound. I find hollowbody guitar necks much easier to play and easier to fret chords than acoustics.

You should check out bill gagnon. People I know who play in Jazz bands swear by his guitars!
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=