The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 04-10-2018, 08:58 AM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Out West
Posts: 10,024
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Forum member Midwinter sat down with me one day while I was mixing his first CD, and he and I discussed this exact thing in length. The high pass is the most important in keeping the low end in the reverb from running away into useless mud
And I would say especially in more complex mixes that High pass goes a long way to cleaning up low end mud on many things besides just verb and delay.
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud

FOR SALE: Supro Titan Tube Amp
FOR SALE: Brauner Phantom V Mic
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:52 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ogden, Utah
Posts: 1,341
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
And I would say especially in more complex mixes that High pass goes a long way to cleaning up low end mud on many things besides just verb and delay.
yeah there's usually a lot of rumble that builds up that a high pass can help. One of my favorite preamps, the very simple Neve Portico 5012 features a variable high pass, and that's all I really need to get recording. I think it really helps when it comes to final mixes when you address alot of the problems right at the source. It sure helps me anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-10-2018, 05:19 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
And I would say especially in more complex mixes that High pass goes a long way to cleaning up low end mud on many things besides just verb and delay.
Yes - low end management is so important. Well, frequency management in general is usually an important aspect of a great mix.
__________________
-Steve
My Website

Too many acoustic & electric guitars, basses, mandolins, violins, dulcimers, trumpets & percussion instruments to list.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-11-2018, 09:58 AM
Al Acuff's Avatar
Al Acuff Al Acuff is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Posts: 335
Default

If you record a singing guitar player using the dueling figure 8 microphone method the proximity effects double. Lots of mud if you're not careful. It helps a lot to have a mic pre with sweepable hi pass filtering.
__________________
Al Acuff
Al's Folk Music Blog
Alan Acuff Music
1949 Gibson J45
1953 Gibson L4C
1963 Gibson LG1

Last edited by Al Acuff; 04-11-2018 at 07:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-12-2018, 07:14 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,289
Send a message via Skype™ to Ty Ford
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
I like reverb to, in the words of Lebowski, 'tie the room together.' Rather than use it as an effect, I use it as an illusion (yes, everyone was playing together in a room or space). For the most part, I use FAR less reverb than 20-30 years ago. I'm finding that as I play parts better, I can get away with less reverb. I realize I used to use reverb to smooth over choppy or inconsistent performance.

I find I like delays on a single line track such as a solo. It can help create a special space without using more reverb.

Similar with vocals. I find that a little delay goes a long way and need to watch so I don't overdo it.

Longer delays seem to work better for me. I'm not a fan of slap-back as that tends to remind me of poor acoustical environments more than a desirable vibe. I like multi-tap delay as it doesn't sound as mechanical.

Whenever there are two similar parts (lead and harmony vocal, or two acoustic guitars), I like to apply EQ and effects to differentiate them. e.g. I might have a little delay and low mids-rolloff on a lead and then mid bump and tiny bit of chorus on the backing guitar.

In fact, my mixing approach is to find something unique and specific about each instrument and enhance that. My motto is 'if it's not contributing, it is taking something away' so each part had better 'do it's job.'
Gordon,

I'm very much on the same page as you. I think reverb is frequently used to hide rather than to help.

I'll counter with this. The Church's "Under The Milky Way" is a good example of lots of reverb that does work, but every time I hear it I wonder if they could have used a little less.

There's this line, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." I think the tendency to add one more guitar track (usually to hide the defects of the first one) is the death knell for many recorded pieces. It frequently takes away from the piece. Only you can decide whether you can do that one part better. I usually force myself to and and am happier with the results.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-12-2018, 08:56 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
There's this line, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." I think the tendency to add one more guitar track (usually to hide the defects of the first one) is the death knell for many recorded pieces. It frequently takes away from the piece. Only you can decide whether you can do that one part better. I usually force myself to and and am happier with the results.
In my observation this goes hand in hand with the "fix it in the mix" mentality that is prevalent with digital recording. Now, don't get me wrong...I love digital, but I still can't get out of the tape mentality. I commit to things early on and push to get better takes rather than comping a bunch of near misses together to fake a bullseye.

And a close cousin of the "fix it in the mix" is the rampant use of many tracks "just because", which leads to lazy arranging & pre-production. "ah just lay it down, we can decide if t works later".

I dunno...maybe it's just me
__________________
-Steve
My Website

Too many acoustic & electric guitars, basses, mandolins, violins, dulcimers, trumpets & percussion instruments to list.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:23 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DupleMeter View Post
And a close cousin of the "fix it in the mix" is the rampant use of many tracks "just because", which leads to lazy arranging & pre-production. "ah just lay it down, we can decide if t works later".
There's a growing trend, and as a bass player I'll admit I participate, toward "mail-order" record-making. A producer tells his client "I can get players X, Y, and Z on your record for way cheap if we send them stems, they lay down tracks at home, and we give them some time to get it done." Operating in a vacuum, they get a click and a guide track of some sort and a scratch vocal, they lay down a Simple, a Medium, and a Fancy, and they send it back.

You can imagine the crazy-quilt that results.
__________________
Old Ibanez Dreadnought
Hideous Orange Indonesian Classical
Cordoba Tenor Uke
This list oughta lower the bar some.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:06 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
There's a growing trend, and as a bass player I'll admit I participate, toward "mail-order" record-making. A producer tells his client "I can get players X, Y, and Z on your record for way cheap if we send them stems, they lay down tracks at home, and we give them some time to get it done." Operating in a vacuum, they get a click and a guide track of some sort and a scratch vocal, they lay down a Simple, a Medium, and a Fancy, and they send it back.

You can imagine the crazy-quilt that results.
Don't have to imagine - I'm the poor sucker who gets all those files at the end to make a mix happen

In fact I just bounced a mix minutes ago that was done this way. I was talking with one of the guys on the track and we both agreed this would be a much better track if they had just booked some studio time and got everyone in the studio together. And this is no small time artist, either. So, go figure...
__________________
-Steve
My Website

Too many acoustic & electric guitars, basses, mandolins, violins, dulcimers, trumpets & percussion instruments to list.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:36 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DupleMeter View Post
Don't have to imagine - I'm the poor sucker who gets all those files at the end to make a mix happen
Just last week I went next door to sing some BGV's on an end-stage mail-order record, and there were something like 65 tracks on the screen. And this was an Americana roots-rock kinda thing. It seemed like it took forever for the poor guy to mute enough stuff that I could tell what was going on.
__________________
Old Ibanez Dreadnought
Hideous Orange Indonesian Classical
Cordoba Tenor Uke
This list oughta lower the bar some.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:23 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Just last week I went next door to sing some BGV's on an end-stage mail-order record, and there were something like 65 tracks on the screen. And this was an Americana roots-rock kinda thing. It seemed like it took forever for the poor guy to mute enough stuff that I could tell what was going on.
LOL - and that's what I'm seeing all the time. The project I finished yesterday had 4 overhead tracks for the drums. 4! And that went with the 3 kick & 3 snare tracks. Yet, somehow they managed to not get a hi-hat mic. Someone explain that to me. I guess they figured I had 2 extra OHs...why bother
__________________
-Steve
My Website

Too many acoustic & electric guitars, basses, mandolins, violins, dulcimers, trumpets & percussion instruments to list.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:20 PM
midwinter midwinter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
The high pass is the most important in keeping the low end in the reverb from running away into useless mud
I spent about 3 hours today dialing in reverbs and then de-mudding them for a project.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-16-2018, 11:50 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DupleMeter View Post
Yet, somehow they managed to not get a hi-hat mic. Someone explain that to me.
I want someone to invent the lo-hat mic. You turn it up and the hi-hat gets softer.
__________________
Old Ibanez Dreadnought
Hideous Orange Indonesian Classical
Cordoba Tenor Uke
This list oughta lower the bar some.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-17-2018, 07:54 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I want someone to invent the lo-hat mic. You turn it up and the hi-hat gets softer.
LOL. I love it!
__________________
-Steve
My Website

Too many acoustic & electric guitars, basses, mandolins, violins, dulcimers, trumpets & percussion instruments to list.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-18-2018, 07:10 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,289
Send a message via Skype™ to Ty Ford
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I want someone to invent the lo-hat mic. You turn it up and the hi-hat gets softer.
So, not a big fan of disco music?

Regards,

Ty Ford
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:31 AM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Out West
Posts: 10,024
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
So, not a big fan of disco music?

Regards,

Ty Ford
Boy I was a huge fan, well not the music so much as the women and being single and unattached in the pre AIDS era. . And then clad in Levi 501's, cowboy boots, and cotton shirt, apparently it was unusual enough in that scene, all I had to do go in sit at the bar order a beer, and just sit watch and wait. Almost without fail within 1/2 hour some gal would ask me to dance and things usually just got better an better from there
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud

FOR SALE: Supro Titan Tube Amp
FOR SALE: Brauner Phantom V Mic
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=