Need ideas on sound system ....

[guitarwebguy]

So .... one of the members of a band I play in had to unexpectedly drop out of the group. Unfortunately, he was the one who owned the sound system. Our problem is that none of us have ever purchased a sound system. Fortunately we have time to acquire a new sound system. We'd appreciate suggestions on what might best meet our needs. Our previous system (mixer and 2 powered speakers) handled instruments (mandolin, guitar/banjo, tenor guitar/bass) and vocals (2 male, 1 female). Typically we play for groups ranging from 20 - 60 people both inside and outside. We don't have unlimited funds but we know that a good sounding system is an investment. TIA

[Methos1979]

Well, you can't go wrong with a pair of QSC k10.2 powered speakers and the mixer of your choice. If you need more bass then you could go with the k12.2 speakers.

[Chipotle]

I know I keep posting this on various threads but take look at digital mixers. I'm sold on them.

Something like a Behringer XR18 has 18 channels, L/R main plus 6 aux outputs, runs 4 effects at once, highpass plus 4 full-band paramentric EQ on every channel plus a gate and compressor, and full EQ on the all the outputs as well. All in a box a bit bigger than a loaf of bread. And you can control it from a tablet anywhere in the house--mine sits right in front of me on a mic stand holder. You'll have a mixer that is as capable as analog mixers far larger in size and cost.

I hook mine up to a couple K10.2s, like Methos says, plus a CP8 if I need a monitor wedge.

[GmanJeff]

For audiences that size you don't need anything larger than 8" speakers. A pair of EV ZxA1, QSC K8.2 or CP8, Turbosound IQ8, Macxkie DLM8, or even Behringer B108D (if you're on a tight budget), would probably work well for you with a smaller footprint and less weight than 10" or larger alternatives.

The one caveat is your reference to "tenor guitar/bass". If you plan to put a bass guitar through the PA, you may find you want 12" or larger speakers, or even a subwoofer, depending on the style of music you play and the impact you want the bass to have. 8" speakers will reproduce bass guitar, but larger speakers will provide a more substantial bottom end. Having the bass player go through a bass-specific instrument amp may be a better alternative than building a PA just to accommodate that one instrument.

As Chipotle suggests, digital mixers offer many benefits over analog types. A QSC Touchmix-8 is a good option, or the Touchmix-16 if you want greater room for future expansion.

You'll need speaker stands, so don't forget to budget for those. Sturdy, durable stands are worth the investment and are safer than more flimsy units which may not do the job if accidentally bumped. You'll also need AC power and line cables for the speakers. I use snakes like these: https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/277...wered-speakers

Lastly, especially with a digital mixer, it's a good idea to budget for a power conditioner to protect the system. One which regulates voltage is ideal but increases cost. At a minimum you'll want effective surge protection and line noise filtering.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Well, you can't go wrong with a pair of QSC k10.2 powered speakers and the mixer of your choice. If you need more bass then you could go with the k12.2 speakers.

In its simplest form, this is it. However you can get excellent powered speakers that to 95-98% of these for half the price. A mid-range mixer that has 4 more inputs than you think you need, 3-4 monitor speakers, stands, cables, rolling cart, mics & stands. If you aren't sound-gurus, I would stay away from digital mixers. As great as they are when they work, if you're in a dense urban area (think train station or area with a lot of electronic activity (RF, Bluetooth, Wifi...) you can, and I have, experienced interference between the mixer and surrounding transmissions causing the board to lose connection. Unless you're going to have an experienced, dedicated sound person, stick with analog.


Unless you're working weekly, something like this would be fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Powered-.../dp/B006JA3BS8

https://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-mp-...stands-control

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

digital mixers. As great as they are when they work, if you're in a dense urban area (think train station or area with a lot of electronic activity (RF, Bluetooth, Wifi...) you can, and I have, experienced interference between the mixer and surrounding transmissions

Possible, of course, but greatly reduced chance if you get an external dual-band router and use the much-less-crowded 5GHz band. Anecdotally from the user groups, people who try to use the internal 2.4 wifi have issues; almost no problems with external 5GHz.

You can also hard-wire a laptop up to many of the mixers, eliminating wifi problems at the cost of giving up remote mixing (or, having the hard-wire as a backup).

All depends on your technical ability and comfort level, of course.

[roylor4]

Well, it depends on budget.

Look at the original post. They are playing for 20-60 people at a time.

IMO, Start with good components that ca be built upon over time. k10's and 12's are great IF YOU NEED THEM OR CAN AFFORD THEM - they are certainly not necessary for crowds the size mentioned.

I would start with a pair of Yamaha DBR10's or QSC CP8's and a small powered speaker for a monitor. I really like the sturdiness of Soundcraft analogue mixers.

I also agree that you should get a mixing board with more XLR ins than you think you need.

If your crowds grow, use the CP8's for monitors and then get bigger or better speakers as mains.

Have band members each purchase a needed piece instead of "going in together". If the band splits up, everyone leaves with what they paid for.

[jseth]

If you are young and strong (!!!), I would think you could get some GREAT PA gear for pennies on the dollar, just by going a bit "Old School". Stay away from all the newer "latest greatest" gear and go back a few decades...

I know that I personally sold off most of my previous PA system for next to nothing ($300 for ~$2500 worth of gear), as I now have my Bose L1 Model II and I literally do not have the space to have gear "laying around'.

Look at quality speakers, amps and mixers that are 10-25 years old. Make sure they're in great shape before you buy. You may have to buy speaker stands and cables, but I'd be shocked if you can't find a really terrific sound system for well under $1,000... if it's good gear, it was built to last and perform for a long time; if its been lightly used and cared for, there's no reason to buy something newer, UNLESS weight is a concern! (It is for me - nearly 40 years of dealing with "low back" drama...)

[guitarwebguy]

I appreciate the ideas everyone has offered. All of us are older. $ is a consideration, although I would love to be able to drop $2K on an QSC system ..... We could do the bass through an amp which would help. The digital systems look a bit overwhelming and I should probably find a few and look at them at a music store to better understand. The XLR/AC snake is a great idea and not one that I would have thought of. Since we are not in a hurry we’ve time to explore our options. The idea that we each buy a piece makes a lot of sense. Much to consider!

[shufflebeat]

I considered those cables but keeping A/C and signal cables separate is much cheaper, more flexible (both in use and in physical characteristics) and cheaper to repair.

I loved the idea when I saw it but when I saw the price I started imagining drawbacks.

[varmonter]

I know im in the minority. But i much prefer an analog board over digital.
Especially if you dont have a dedicated
sound tech. While your playing you just
cant reach over and make an adjustment. most features other than gain and volume are buried i menus and
require 2 hands and a few seconds to
get to. Also imho Digital has a very sterile sound. Our band uses a touchmix
and i think its a terrible compromise.
(substituting all of its convenient features for quality and ease of use)
Fortunately its experiencing power issues
and may be on its way out...i hope..
But like said above you cant go wrong
with a couple of qsc k10s and an analog
board. Many have built in fx .

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by guitarwebguy

So .... one of the members of a band I play in had to unexpectedly drop out of the group. Unfortunately, he was the one who owned the sound system. Our problem is that none of us have ever purchased a sound system. Fortunately we have time to acquire a new sound system. We'd appreciate suggestions on what might best meet our needs. Our previous system (mixer and 2 powered speakers) handled instruments (mandolin, guitar/banjo, tenor guitar/bass) and vocals (2 male, 1 female). Typically we play for groups ranging from 20 - 60 people both inside and outside. We don't have unlimited funds but we know that a good sounding system is an investment. TIA

Unfortunately the bolded statement is far too vague to be of any real use in making suggestions . So what you really need to do is get together and decide two things:
#1 is this going to be a group investment or are one of you going to purchase ? There are pros and cons to both.

#2 decide on a budget range
Because as written you statement could mean a couple hundred dollars, to upwards of $10,000 or more.

Also you did not mention do you also need to purchase new mic's as well ?

You mentioned instruments and vocals in the previous band configuration but but were unclear as to the actual total number of people and exactly who does what then or now ???? 3 vocals then or now ? Are the vocalists the entire number of people in the group, OR are there some instrumentalists only? fairly vague.............I am guessing what you tried to say you now have 2 or 3 people and that sing and play
and current total number of inputs needed to plugged in and playing at any one time is probably 6 3 vocals and 3 instruments ,,,,,, or 4.,,,,hard to tell ?

That said if it were me , I tend to shop value and future proof as opposed to going cheap and have to upgrade quickly .

I would consider 3 systems

At a minimum for a group of 2 -4 I would recommend as others have noted two powered speakers and good small mixing board.


The lower end of the budget range (I would consider) would be aprox. $1500,,, then up to about $6000 to $8000)max


In all cases I would go straight to the SoundCraft "Signature" 12 MTK mixer @$500 It gives you great analog mic pre's, high quality analog circuitry and build throughout, and can output up to 12 channels simultaneously via USB into a computer DAW (if you ever decide to start recording live ,,, future proof )

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...e-with-effects


At the lower end aprox $1500 with mixer
I would look at the new Presonus Air series PA speakers either the 10's or 12's. @ $499 AND $599 respectively
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...owered-speaker

Moving up the next I would consider is the Line 6 Stage Source L2 m series speakers aprox $2200 with mixer

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tagesource-l2m

Beyond that price wise towards the upper end you might consider a pair of Bose L1 series,,,, or one for each performer Aprox $2000 each Plus mixer (or not by using on board mixer )

Or if it were me (since I care for Bose ,but that just me ). a pair of Baggs Synapse, or one for each performer @ $2000 each Plus mixer

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...onal-pa-system

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by guitarwebguy

So .... one of the members of a band I play in had to unexpectedly drop out of the group. Unfortunately, he was the one who owned the sound system. Our problem is that none of us have ever purchased a sound system. Fortunately we have time to acquire a new sound system. We'd appreciate suggestions on what might best meet our needs. Our previous system (mixer and 2 powered speakers) handled instruments (mandolin, guitar/banjo, tenor guitar/bass) and vocals (2 male, 1 female). Typically we play for groups ranging from 20 - 60 people both inside and outside. We don't have unlimited funds but we know that a good sounding system is an investment. TIA

Hi g-web-guy

I need a car. What do you recommend?

That's the kind of question you just asked.

Purchasing a PA in not a One-Size-Fits-All proposition.

What works for me may not even have a possibility of meeting your needs. The last time I shopped for a small system, I actually went to a major city (Denver) to a company's warehouse where they had 10 speaker systems hooked up to 25 mixers, and 10 power amps in a room the size of a small church auditorium.

We were able to audition any mix of the components with either their mics, or bring our own. We spent a couple hours auditioning systems. I took another musician with me, and we had very open discussion with the techs who were there in the audition room (three of them).

Surprisingly the price of the system we chose was $200 less expensive than if we'd bought the equipment from a large-music-company-online.

Just a thought if you are planning on purchasing proper PA equipment ONLY ONCE.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Especially if you dont have a dedicated
sound tech. While your playing you just
cant reach over and make an adjustment.

Honest question... how many of you, if you are running your own sound, reach down to make adjustments mid-song, or between songs, and how often?

I don't find it much slower at all to make a tap or two before tweaking, say an EQ band than it would be on an analog mixer. If it's between songs (a solo act like me can't do either mid-song) the extra second doesn't matter. Is it just habit, or being wary of the learning curve? If you've used both kinds of systems but prefer analog, do you really find it that difficult?

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by varmonter

I know im in the minority. But i much prefer an analog board over digital.

Maybe so but you're not alone! My strong preference too. A simple digital interface like what I see in the Evolve 30m demo is tempting, partly for quick-setup reasons, but some version of a snake setup could change that equation for me.