Flatpicking - What to learn first, Carter picking or crosspicking?

[phydaux]

So after several fruitless months of trying to lean fingerpicking, I've decided to dedicate myself to learning flatpicking.

Step one, download the tabs for Irish Washerwoman and play that over & over in front of a metronome. Currently ongoing.

Step two is to learn some picking patterns. I can't decide to if I should work on Carter picking first or crosspicking first.

Any recommendations?

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by phydaux

So after several fruitless months of trying to lean fingerpicking, I've decided to dedicate myself to learning flatpicking.

Step one, download the tabs for Irish Washerwoman and play that over & over in front of a metronome. Currently ongoing.

Step two is to learn some picking patterns. I can't decide to if I should work on Carter picking first or crosspicking first.

Any recommendations?

What style of picking do you want to hear yourself playing?

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

What style of picking do you want to hear yourself playing?

I don't want to say "bluegrass" because I don't want to do JUST bluegrass.

Rhythm strumming with bass lines, ornaments, flourishes, & arpeggios, arpeggios higher up the neck, and some single note melody tunes like Irish Washerwoman, The Wellerman, and Cotton Eye Joe.

And blues. So much blues. The blues is blues, country, bluegrass, rock and roll, and jazz.

[VoidBringer]

Carter Scratch with the pick should come first. We can define it as hitting the lower strings on the downbeat and higher strings on the offbeat. The reason is you’re going to need to be comfortable with the boom-chick as the foundational rhythm of so many other elements and classic songs. Your G runs and licks will come next. Those are used to color the rhythm and provide fills. You’ll ride those back to your root note which comes as the first measure downbeat of a scratch rhythm.

Crosspicking can get really complicated and you’ll find yourself lost in a good way. But without understanding the foundational scratch, you won’t get far in completing a song. You’ll come out of crosspick sections and won’t be on steady ground.

This is all subjective, but even Molly Tuttle, who crosspicks seemingly everything, comes out of her rolls to strum more typical carter scratch rhythms. She incorporates crosspick sections inside of the rhythm as fill elements, and this is partly what makes her so phenomenal, but the foundation is there. That foundation is the scratch style. She’s a banjo player, as well, so it makes sense.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by phydaux

So after several fruitless months of trying to lean fingerpicking, I've decided to dedicate myself to learning flatpicking.

Step one, download the tabs for Irish Washerwoman and play that over & over in front of a metronome. Currently ongoing.

Step two is to learn some picking patterns. I can't decide to if I should work on Carter picking first or crosspicking first.

Any recommendations?

the Carter scratch is a variation of banjo style frailing and evolved to become the standard country style boom-chick.

Cross picking is really a variation on basic flat picking rhythm.

It is very rare that I put the same video up twice in the same day - but this might help:

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by VoidBringer

Carter Scratch with the pick should come first. We can define it as hitting the lower strings on the downbeat and higher strings on the offbeat. The reason is you’re going to need to be comfortable with the boom-chick as the foundational rhythm of so many other elements and classic songs. Your G runs and licks will come next. Those are used to color the rhythm and provide fills. You’ll ride those back to your root note which comes as the first measure downbeat of a scratch rhythm.

Crosspicking can get really complicated and you’ll find yourself lost in a good way. But without understanding the foundational scratch, you won’t get far in completing a song. You’ll come out of crosspick sections and won’t be on steady ground.

This is all subjective, but even Molly Tuttle, who crosspicks seemingly everything, comes out of her rolls to strum more typical carter scratch rhythms. She incorporates crosspick sections inside of the rhythm as fill elements, and this is partly what makes her so phenomenal, but the foundation is there. That foundation is the scratch style. She’s a banjo player, as well, so it makes sense.

Thanks for the pointer. A couple of months ago I ran across a series of youtube videos on Carter Picking. I'll see if I can chase those down.

Last night I watch the first five minutes of a youtube video on crosspicking where the guy was applying crosspicking to triads, and just moving the triads around the neck in a simple I-IV-V chord progression and crosspicking the arpeggios. I was straight-up gob smacked at how simple the idea was.

But I'll save that until I can Carter pick my open chords.

[rllink]

I bought a book called Flatpicking Essentials volume one and volume two. Someone here recommended it. I've been learning a lot out of them. It comes with a CD. The thing about it though is that you aren't going to start out doing Carter picking and crosspicking. You are going to start out walking a base line and doing walk ups and walk downs into chords. You don't get to do Carter picking and crosspicking until volume two. There is much to be said for starting on the ground floor learning some basics before diving into it. The books are a bit Bluesgrass oriented, but the skills translate.

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by rllink

I bought a book called Flatpicking Essentials volume one and volume two. Someone here recommended it. I've been learning a lot out of them. It comes with a CD. The thing about it though is that you aren't going to start out doing Carter picking it crosspicking. You are going to start out walking a base line and doing walk ups and walk downs into chords. You donte get to do Carter picking and crosspicking until volume two. There is much to be said for starting on the ground floor learning some basics before diving into it. The books are a bit Bluesgrass oriented, but the skills translate.

I saw those on flatpick.com. There's like eight books in the series, plus supplemental volumes. I was wondering if they were any good. Glad to read some positive feedback about them.

[Mr. Jelly]

Since you have put it that way I'd say start with Carter picking and go to crosspicking second. But there is no reason to give up fingerpicking. Do it also doing the same things. After years of playing I pretty much do the same things no matter if I'm flatpicking or fingerpicking.

[Jamolay]

I don’t know if it is any good, but ArtistWorks is offering a free flatpick if lesson.

https://go.artistworks.com/free-blue...zUXHwRwgnjujkc

[Riverwolf]

https://musicwithryan.com/

This is where I got started with Carter style playing.
All lessons have video and tab.

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by rllink

I bought a book called Flatpicking Essentials volume one and volume two. Someone here recommended it. I've been learning a lot out of them. It comes with a CD. The thing about it though is that you aren't going to start out doing Carter picking it crosspicking. You are going to start out walking a base line and doing walk ups and walk downs into chords. You donte get to do Carter picking and crosspicking until volume two. There is much to be said for starting on the ground floor learning some basics before diving into it. The books are a bit Bluesgrass oriented, but the skills translate.

Based off your recommendation I just ordered Flatpicking Essentials volume one and volume two. I was planning on it eventually but was dragging my feet. Thank you for helping me pull the trigger.

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by VoidBringer

Carter Scratch with the pick should come first. We can define it as hitting the lower strings on the downbeat and higher strings on the offbeat. The reason is you’re going to need to be comfortable with the boom-chick as the foundational rhythm of so many other elements and classic songs. Your G runs and licks will come next. Those are used to color the rhythm and provide fills. You’ll ride those back to your root note which comes as the first measure downbeat of a scratch rhythm.

Crosspicking can get really complicated and you’ll find yourself lost in a good way. But without understanding the foundational scratch, you won’t get far in completing a song. You’ll come out of crosspick sections and won’t be on steady ground.

This is all subjective, but even Molly Tuttle, who crosspicks seemingly everything, comes out of her rolls to strum more typical carter scratch rhythms. She incorporates crosspick sections inside of the rhythm as fill elements, and this is partly what makes her so phenomenal, but the foundation is there. That foundation is the scratch style. She’s a banjo player, as well, so it makes sense.

Can you please elaborate - What do you mean by "G runs?"

[GCWaters]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Can you please elaborate - What do you mean by "G runs?"

The classic Lester Flatt licks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxlJh-nMOTM

[rllink]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Can you please elaborate - What do you mean by "G runs?"

You will get to learn G runs in your Flatpicking Essentials Volume One. About half way through. I wouldn't get too hung up on them just yet and get ahead of yourself. You'll work into them. Bookmark that video though.