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Old 11-04-2021, 04:32 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Default String type/gauge for acoustic archtops - how low can you go? (re The Loar LH-650)

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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
The 600's and 650's are really good...light, LOUD. .
I keep coming back to this question about string gauges for finger-picking acoustic archtops.

On my mini-jumbo I used to use Earthwood Silk & Steel "Soft" (11-52'ish) and now the considerably lower-tension Thomastik AC111. Interestingly it's as if the instrument breathes better with those strings (it definitely sounds fuller to the player) and my fingers and hands sure appreciate the reduced strain.

I guess I'm asking is what are the lowest acoustic strings people here have had good results with on their archtop (esp. ones comparable to The Loar LH650).

Also, I read somewhere that string tension doesn't work out the same way for playability on these instruments. Is there any truth to that?
I'm not sure how this could be but I presume the floating bridge design would have something to do with it (the bit between bridge and tailpiece has to be added to the "playable scale length", so a given string should tune up to a somewhat higher tension than it does on a pin-bridge guitar with the same scale length).

The only reference I have in this domain is my late 40s German archtop, which appears to have a very thin top and sounds just fine with the lowest tension Martin Silk & Steel strings. Not loud, but it's hardly a reference anyway due to age and state (1/3 of its single parallel-to-what brace has come undone).

TIA!
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Old 11-06-2021, 01:54 PM
nomey nomey is offline
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I currently have newtone heritage 13-55's on one of my archtops. The gauge doesn't sound like it's very low in tension but it is lighter than a 12-54 regular set. I get a good response out of it. The guitar is a pretty lightly built banner era gibson with kerfed parallel bracing and no truss rod.
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Old 11-07-2021, 10:54 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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The Newtones are a good choice, they make sets that are double-wound so the wound strings have a quite small inner core wire, which is what sets the tension. Archtop guitars respond far more to string mass than high tension. I prefer .012 - .052 for sound on my archtops (I used to make archtops so I have several) for response, I'm currently playing a guitar with those Newtone double wound strings in that gauge, AND I tune down a full step to D-D. I find almost all my guitars respond to that lower tuning, and in fact I'm pretty convinced that E - E tuning is a hold over from gut strung guitars, that's what we used when steel strings came in and we never thought to revisit it. I find my archtop guitars sound best with around 135 lbs total tension which gives around 25 lbs downforce on the bridge - anything over 35 lbs downforce and I can hear the top close up and the tone get pinched. Some people like that sound, but I don't.
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Old 11-08-2021, 08:09 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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That's great to hear, and a useful reference. "Closing up" is exactly what I notice with a bit heavier tensions on my jumbo too, though of course it will open up again when I take a pick and use a heavier hand. Not my thing.

I tried a single set of Newton double-wounds once, custom-made with 80/20 brass. I didn't really care for them, I found the lower strings not very stable in intonation. I'd probably be using composite (some kind of nylon) strings if anyone made them at the proper tension but in the meantime I find I'm most happy with the aforementioned silk & brass strings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC5C View Post
Archtop guitars respond far more to string mass than high tension.
There is of course a relationship between scale length, mass (aka unit mass and diameter), tension and tuned tone. Making the string heavier by increasing the winding-to-core proportion or using a heavier winding alloy means means the tension has to increase too, if I'm not mistaken. (Increase tension on a given string and its tone will go up unless you also make it thicker/heavier, right?!)
So either way you're looking at a better response at higher tension, regardless of what the top responds to (which is probably indeed different to what flat-tops respond to because of the floating bridge). The only thing here that does work out different on an archtop is the aforementioned fact that there's a significant amount of string on the mute side of the saddle. That increases the scale length relevant for string tension, and means that a given set will tune to a somewhat lower tension than it will on a pin-bridge guitar with the same "sounding scale length".
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Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
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Old 11-08-2021, 08:24 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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I find with archtops, heavier strings do sound better.

This isn't necessarily bad news. With heavy strings, you can actually go LOWER with your action...and archtops are much quicker to adjust string action on...

Of course, if you're playing big band rhythm, nothing beats heavy strings AND high action, but that makes the guitar a one trick pony.
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