Follow up on NMD, Austrian Audio OC818

[SprintBob]

Here's a follow up on the thread I began recently on my search for an LDC mic with multi-pattern capability. After a lot of great suggestions, I went with the Austrian Audio OC818. This mic has gotten a lot of positive press based on its evolution of the proven AKG 414 capsule design. There are many other unique features to this mic that make it unique and powerful and I am really looking forward to exploring what the mic can do with these features (check out their website).

In my first test with the mic, I did a recording in one session playing the same 60 second passage from a solo acoustic song I learned recently. I played five sequential passages on to the same track as follows. OC 818 in Figure 8, cardioid, supercardioid, and omnidirectional patterns followed by a single Neumann KM 184 SDC mic. Both mics were setup about 6-7 inches from my guitar (my Doerr Trinity 00) and both were aligned with the body-neck junction of the guitar. Mic levels were set so peaks did not exceed -6db.

Of the four OC818 patterns for this setup, the cardioid and supercardioid sounded best. The Figure 8 sounded kind of boomy on the low end and the omnidirectional sounded softer and a bit quieter. The supercardioid compared to the cardioid sounded like it had a bit more reverb to it (or perhaps room reverb) but it was not unpleasant to my ear.

The comparison to the KM184 was interesting. The 184 seemed to capture more of the high end with a bit more clarity but as a single mic, it sounded (perhaps) a touch more on the harsh side. But what was really interesting was that the 184 really pulled in my breathing and other details I really may not want in the recording. The house HVAC system may have come on also during this take so over the next week, I am going to re-record the 184 take to see if the results and impressions are consistent.

What I think I learned from this first comparison is that the sound of the OC818 measures up very well against a benchmark like the 184. It sounds a bit more natural and perhaps more open than the 184. Maybe this is more of a contrast between an LDC and SDC mics. The 184 for my use (solo acoustic recording) will probably always work best as X-Y or spaced pair and I have to be really aware of how sensitive the mic is. The 818 will obviously work great as a single mic and I'm looking forward to trying out a M-S setup using the 818 as the Figure 8 mic and a 184 as the cardioid mic.


Here's the comparison - Sequence is 818 Fig 8, 818 caridioid, 818 supercardioid, 818 omni, KM 184. Please excuse the amateur playing!

[Glennwillow]

Very interesting Bob!

First, congratulations on having two wonderful microphones! It's interesting how similar all the recording clips sound. For me, because I am used to bigger guitars with more bass than a 00 size guitar, I think the figure 8 and cardioid pattern recordings sound fine.

But I also hear the difference in the omni pattern recording and the KM-184 recording.

When I have used a large diaphragm mic to record a guitar, in my case an Audio Technica AT4050, I found that the most natural sound was the omni setting. Every other setting added some proximity effect and made my guitar sound way too bassy. In your case with a smaller 00 guitar, I don't think the addition of a little bass is a problem, but then I like bass, at least up to a point.

I have heard really appealing stereo guitar recordings with an LDC on the bass side of the guitar and an SDC on the neck side. You've got the mics for that if you ever wanted to give it a try.

Thanks for the experiment Bob! Fascinating stuff! And good for you on the great microphones!

- Glenn

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Very interesting Bob!

First, congratulations on having two wonderful microphones! It's interesting how similar all the recording clips sound. For me, because I am used to bigger guitars with more bass than a 00 size guitar, I think the figure 8 and cardioid pattern recordings sound fine.

But I also hear the difference in the omni pattern recording and the KM-184 recording.

When I have used a large diaphragm mic to record a guitar, in my case an Audio Technica AT4050, I found that the most natural sound was the omni setting. Every other setting added some proximity effect and made my guitar sound way too bassy. In your case with a smaller 00 guitar, I don't think the addition of a little bass is a problem, but then I like bass, at least up to a point.

I have heard really appealing stereo guitar recordings with an LDC on the bass side of the guitar and an SDC on the neck side. You've got the mics for that if you ever wanted to give it a try.

Thanks for the experiment Bob! Fascinating stuff! And good for you on the great microphones!

- Glenn

Thanks for checking in Glenn. Regarding the dual mics with an LDC and SDC, I saw a video recently using that setup that looked promising so along with your recommendation, I'll give it a try for sure.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

When I have used a large diaphragm mic to record a guitar, in my case an Audio Technica AT4050, I found that the most natural sound was the omni setting. Every other setting added some proximity effect and made my guitar sound way too bassy. In your case with a smaller 00 guitar, I don't think the addition of a little bass is a problem, but then I like bass, at least up to a point.

Mic settings and placement are very much room dependent. If you have a good recording space, you can back off the guitar and avoid the proximity effect. If your space is acoustically undesirable, that's not an option. Granted, LDCs will pick up more low end, but I'd argue the amount of low end rumble a mic picks up has more to do with the room acoustics than the mic itself.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Mic settings and placement are very much room dependent. If you have a good recording space, you can back off the guitar and avoid the proximity effect. If your space is acoustically undesirable, that's not an option. Granted, LDCs will pick up more low end, but I'd argue the amount of low end rumble a mic picks up has more to do with the room acoustics than the mic itself.

I think I've lucked out with my room acoustics as I've not had too much issue with proximity effect. Taming my thumb has had more to do with how rumbly my guitar sounds .

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Mic settings and placement are very much room dependent. If you have a good recording space, you can back off the guitar and avoid the proximity effect. If your space is acoustically undesirable, that's not an option. Granted, LDCs will pick up more low end, but I'd argue the amount of low end rumble a mic picks up has more to do with the room acoustics than the mic itself.

Hi Jim,

At the time when I was using my LDC Audio Technica AT4050 mics for guitar recording, I really wanted the sound of closely placed mics to the guitar. The only way I could get what I wanted at the time with close mic'ing and without too much proximity effect was to use the omni setting.

Certainly I could have backed off the guitar with the mics to where the proximity effect was no longer present, and the room I was using at the time would have allowed that without any significant room effect. But, as I said, at the time I really wanted that close-miked sound. I don't do that anymore, though there is an appeal, I think, to having a mic really close to the guitar.

Thanks,
Glenn

[min7b5]

I’ve found the 818 and 184 makes for a great m/s recipe, so I’d be curious how that works for you.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I’ve found the 818 and 184 makes for a great m/s recipe, so I’d be curious how that works for you.

Hoping to try that in the next 1-2 weeks. Stay tuned and thanks again for the recommendation on the 818.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Of the four OC818 patterns for this setup, the cardioid and supercardioid sounded best. The Figure 8 sounded kind of boomy on the low end and the omnidirectional sounded softer and a bit quieter. The supercardioid compared to the cardioid sounded like it had a bit more reverb to it (or perhaps room reverb) but it was not unpleasant to my ear.

Recording in figure 8 will often reveal acoustic problems with your space and that's likely why it sounded boomy. The mic by itself isn't going to create reverb so, again, the room is the likely culprit but if you like the reverb you're getting from the room on every piece you record, there's no need to address it.

Originally Posted by SprintBob

The comparison to the KM184 was interesting. The 184 seemed to capture more of the high end with a bit more clarity but as a single mic, it sounded (perhaps) a touch more on the harsh side.

It certainly confirmed my feelings about the 184. Those harsh pingy transients are always unpleasant to my ears but that is clearly a personal subjective opinion because the 184 has plenty of fans.

Originally Posted by SprintBob

What I think I learned from this first comparison is that the sound of the OC818 measures up very well against a benchmark like the 184. It sounds a bit more natural and perhaps more open than the 184.

The 818 sounds like a solid mic for your purposes and I'm not surprised. Although the company is new, the design people have an excellent pedigree. I'm a little surprised, given that they've been around for 3-4 years now, that they haven't expanded their mic line beyond the two 818 offerings. But I think your new mic will serve you well. Congrats on a solid purchase.

[Dmeeg05]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I’ve found the 818 and 184 makes for a great m/s recipe, so I’d be curious how that works for you.

I've only just discovered mid/side recording (new to recording) and it's a game changer. I've been looking at the exact same mic configuration so I too would live to know the OPs thoughts!
I'd it's good enough for Eric Skye, it must be pretty darn good!!

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by jim1960

It certainly confirmed my feelings about the 184. Those harsh pingy transients are always unpleasant to my ears but that is clearly a personal subjective opinion because the 184 has plenty of fans.

I think the reality is that the 184 is so good that it becomes unforgiving if you record something with sloppy technique. For instance, I'm trying to improve my dynamics (too heavy on the thumb, too light on the melody notes, a work in progress) and the 184's really expose it. But it forces me to address the issue so that's a good thing. Learning some compression techniques may be in order too.

Thanks for the feedback Jim.

[Glennwillow]

I liked the sound of both of the microphones on Bob's guitar, but I could hear the bass rolloff and the slight emphasis on the higher frequencies (about 3 db) up around 6-10 Khz of the Neumann KM-184. See the frequency response curve for this mic: http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Neumann/KM-184.

- Glenn

[SprintBob]

Here’s a 184 pointed at the 12th fret and the OC818 pointed just behind the bridge on the lower bout on my Doerr Trinity. I’m quite pleased how this came out and for spaced pair setup, this could be my new “standard”.

Will try M-S next.

[keith.rogers]

Sounds nice. In some headphones I feel like there's a little buzziness or resonance, but can't put my finger on it. On my little HS5s it doesn't jump out though.

And is that just a passing duet bit or some kind of comping? It seems like there's 2 guitars (around 3:05) and then it kind of moves off to the one on the left. There's a click around 3:35-ish. Those things are a little confusing/distracting to my ear.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Sounds nice. In some headphones I feel like there's a little buzziness or resonance, but can't put my finger on it. On my little HS5s it doesn't jump out though.

And is that just a passing duet bit or some kind of comping? It seems like there's 2 guitars (around 3:05) and then it kind of moves off to the one on the left. There's a click around 3:35-ish. Those things are a little confusing/distracting to my ear.

The entire recording is one guitar. I hear you after the 3:05 mark. The music does drift to the left but the level meters in Reaper really don’t show it so I’m scratching my head still about that. The click you heard was from me playing a wrong note near the end and I immediately replayed it and then post processing removed the wrong note but I got the click when I merged the split sections back together. I’ll probably go back and work on getting that click out.