Please Help! High-pitched Ringing Noise on Certain Notes

[t1mp0w]

Hey everyone!

I am very new to AGF, and I am liking it so far! I currently have a dilemma that has been going on for about a month now:

I have a lovely Taylor GS Mini-e Koa (I've had it for about 3 months), and it sounds great. However, as of about a month ago I have noticed a shrill metallic "ringing" noise that occurs when I play the open G string. The note itself is fine, but it sounds like there is an additional loud overtone/harmonic when the string is struck. I also notice it when the G string is fretted, up to around the 4th fret or so, but it is most noticeable as an open string. The ringing is more prominent when plugged into an amplifier, but it is definitely there acoustically (I recently recorded some music with it and I can hear it without an amp). The ringing occurs on the string that is being played, and immediately stops when the string is muted. I can also hear it a bit on the high e string.

I have tried muting the strings between the nut and the tuners, changing strings to different types/gauges, swapped out the bridge pins, changing to a bone nut, tightening every screw I could find, placing my hand on and around the saddle and top of the body, switching to E-flat standard tuning, but to no avail. I'm unsure of how to locate where the sound is coming from even.

I am currently in E standard tuning, using Elixir Polyweb Mediums (I first noticed the ringing while using Elixir Nanoweb PB Mediums).

Here is a brief audio clip.

Any ideas what could be causing the sound? Any help is greatly appreciated, I am getting a bit desperate!

[Alan Carruth]

You seem to have done a pretty good job of eliminating most of the common problems, such as the nut, saddle, back strings and so on. That leaves the uncommon ones. Some of these can get pretty esoteric. It might be possible to say something if I could download that clip as a sound file, but maybe not. These things can drive you nuts, even when you have the guitar on the bench.

[mirwa]

If the ringing is consistent with just one string and occurs even when fretted in multiple locations, then I suspect fret issues.

Take a credit card and see if it sits flat across 1/2/3 fret, then 2/3/4 and so forth

Steve

[Bruce Sexauer]

I listened to the clip a couple of times, and it pretty much sounds like a guitar to me. Perhaps you just don't like the tone of this particular instrument.

[David Eastwood]

Tinnitus??

[printer2]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Tinnitus??

Yeah but I listened to the clip anyway.

The first time I heard the clip I did not hear anything wrong but after repeating the first part a few time I hear something like a chirp-squeak a little after the note is struck. Is that what you are hearing or am I just making it up in my head?

[Hoyt]

I've had a number of guitars with an annoying sound on the G string. Making sure the string ball end was tight against bridge plate helped to some degree, as well as adding a couple of winds on the tuner so the string is angled down as much as possible. How I picked the string mattered. Utimately, I think some guitars emphasize a zing in the g string and some of us are sensitive to that sound. LuthIers and friends never found an issue. The first thing I do in a music store is play an open G to see if I hear that sound. I often do, even on very expensive instruments. Put them back immediately.

[Ned Milburn]

The saddle may be too flat causing a sit-guitar sound.

The neck may be too straight.

The frets may be slightly out of level.

The 3rd string nut slot may be too low.

Or any combination of these.

As Alan states, sometimes buzzes or pings can be extremely difficult to find.

[dekutree64]

Originally Posted by Ned Milburn

The saddle may be too flat causing a sit-guitar sound.

The neck may be too straight.

The frets may be slightly out of level.

The 3rd string nut slot may be too low.

Or any combination of these.

As Alan states, sometimes buzzes or pings can be extremely difficult to find.

+1 to those possibilities, as well as one more: The action may be too low for that amplitude of playing. There are 3 different regimes of action: High, where the string doesn't contact the frets at all even if you play hard. Too low, where the string rattles on the frets loudly. And medium-low, where there's a sort of choking/amplitude limiting effect, with the string hitting the frets on the first few wave cycles, after which it vibrates cleanly.

I can hear what you're talking about in the plucks at the start of the clip, but not really during the playing. It sounds very subtle to me, but metallic enough that I'd be surprised if it wasn't metal-against-metal.

[jessupe]

Originally Posted by t1mp0w

Hey everyone!

I am very new to AGF, and I am liking it so far! I currently have a dilemma that has been going on for about a month now:

I have a lovely Taylor GS Mini-e Koa (I've had it for about 3 months), and it sounds great. However, as of about a month ago I have noticed a shrill metallic "ringing" noise that occurs when I play the open G string. The note itself is fine, but it sounds like there is an additional loud overtone/harmonic when the string is struck. I also notice it when the G string is fretted, up to around the 4th fret or so, but it is most noticeable as an open string. The ringing is more prominent when plugged into an amplifier, but it is definitely there acoustically (I recently recorded some music with it and I can hear it without an amp). The ringing occurs on the string that is being played, and immediately stops when the string is muted. I can also hear it a bit on the high e string.

I have tried muting the strings between the nut and the tuners, changing strings to different types/gauges, swapped out the bridge pins, changing to a bone nut, tightening every screw I could find, placing my hand on and around the saddle and top of the body, switching to E-flat standard tuning, but to no avail. I'm unsure of how to locate where the sound is coming from even.

I am currently in E standard tuning, using Elixir Polyweb Mediums (I first noticed the ringing while using Elixir Nanoweb PB Mediums).

Here is a brief audio clip.

Any ideas what could be causing the sound? Any help is greatly appreciated, I am getting a bit desperate!

Try loosening the G string, then in the nut slot as well as the saddle break, put a piece of thin paper that does not go over the break. Then retune to see if there is an improvment. A "sitar" buzz that can come across as a short harmonic ring can be caused by the slot in the nut not being just right or the saddle break being too rounded. If the slot is slightly undercut at the end of the fingeboard a non visible micro gap can be present. Plucked instruments once set in motion, the primary string motion will be up and down, the initial pluck can make it so the string does a "touch" harmonic right at the end of nut where it meets the fingerboard if that little gap is there. A very bad prolonged sitar ring can happen when the gap is larger and it can cycle all the way through the note decay. The saddle can do a similar thing if the break is too rounded. The paper can fill the gap in the nut and for the saddle it can square off the edge {the saddle may require thicker or folded paper} It is a very easy way to see if it is a "ring touch harmonic" and even eliminate it temporarily for a gig if needed.

Mr Mirwa's suggestion of it being a fret is also a high probability in that it too is basically a touch harmonic being set off by the string just touching the string when initially set in motion.

If it is not a harmonic being set off by the string touching down, the other possibilities are rather ugly in that it generally implies something is loose and acting as a reed. Braces, bridge plates, bindings, the bridge are all possibilities. Good luck

[Rodger Knox]

My first guess is a high spot on the 5th or 6th fret. I hope it's that simple.

[LouieAtienza]

Can even be a high fret toward the end of the fretboard. Since I hear it right at the beginning of the note. As the note rings it disappears. I'd try raising the saddle slightly and see if it disappears. A thin piece of plastic maybe just to test.

[t1mp0w]

Thank you for all of your replies, I really appreciate the help!

Regarding the fretwork, I took a credit card and went along the entire neck with no rocking or issues at all.

For the nut and saddle, I just tried what was suggested (putting a piece of paper between it and the string to fill any gaps) and the ringing still remained when I did both.

I also have 2 saddle shim strips that I just put under the saddle (separately and together to raise it a bit) but there was no change in the ringing as well.

As far as the neck and action, I setup my guitar a while ago and eliminated all fret buzz, and intonation is pretty perfect. As far as I can tell everything is good to go regarding the distances and clearance there, but I'll take another look.

And fortunately I have no medical history or risk factors for tinnitus, though that would be an entirely different dilemma altogether heh.

So based on everything I'm hearing from people and the fact that I can't really pinpoint a cause, I guess it might just be part of the acoustics of the instrument (not necessarily what I wanted to hear since I love everything else about this guitar, but it is what it is)...and many of you seem to think it's not really an issue and is a normal sound. That's all cool with me, but what's interesting is that I have 2 other acoustic guitars and I have never even thought I've heard anything like this on them. Unfortunately I don't have them in my apartment with me at the moment so I'll have to listen to them and compare the next time I get a chance.

Something I am hoping for is perhaps as the koa tonewood opens up and matures, the ringing might decrease (it's a relatively new guitar). But I am not banking on that by any means.

Thanks for all the advice! I'll keep tweaking around here and there, and perhaps bring it to a proper luthier once I get a chance. I'll update if there happens to be any news on this.

Thanks!

[t1mp0w]

Originally Posted by printer2

Yeah but I listened to the clip anyway.

The first time I heard the clip I did not hear anything wrong but after repeating the first part a few time I hear something like a chirp-squeak a little after the note is struck. Is that what you are hearing or am I just making it up in my head?

And yes, that is EXACTLY what I am hearing...my ear isn't a huge fan of that sound, so I'm doing my best to diagnose the problem (if there even is one).

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by t1mp0w

Thank you for all of your replies, I really appreciate the help!

Regarding the fretwork, I took a credit card and went along the entire neck with no rocking or issues at all.

For the nut and saddle, I just tried what was suggested (putting a piece of paper between it and the string to fill any gaps) and the ringing still remained when I did both.

I also have 2 saddle shim strips that I just put under the saddle (separately and together to raise it a bit) but there was no change in the ringing as well.

As far as the neck and action, I setup my guitar a while ago and eliminated all fret buzz, and intonation is pretty perfect. As far as I can tell everything is good to go regarding the distances and clearance there, but I'll take another look.

And fortunately I have no medical history or risk factors for tinnitus, though that would be an entirely different dilemma altogether heh.

So based on everything I'm hearing from people and the fact that I can't really pinpoint a cause, I guess it might just be part of the acoustics of the instrument (not necessarily what I wanted to hear since I love everything else about this guitar, but it is what it is)...and many of you seem to think it's not really an issue and is a normal sound. That's all cool with me, but what's interesting is that I have 2 other acoustic guitars and I have never even thought I've heard anything like this on them. Unfortunately I don't have them in my apartment with me at the moment so I'll have to listen to them and compare the next time I get a chance.

Something I am hoping for is perhaps as the koa tonewood opens up and matures, the ringing might decrease (it's a relatively new guitar). But I am not banking on that by any means.

Thanks for all the advice! I'll keep tweaking around here and there, and perhaps bring it to a proper luthier once I get a chance. I'll update if there happens to be any news on this.

Thanks!

I know there are those that feel fallaway is not necessary, and maybe not, but I think with the lower action, and shorter scale, you may need just a pinch... talking about thousandths of an inch here...