For Acoustic Purists, which pickup system?

[ferg]

Seems like a loaded question... for a true purist, I don't even know about a mic, but certainly for at home, you can get by with no amplification. For recording, even an inexpensive mic (such as the SM57), in my experience will work better than any pickup I've ever heard. But that's not really a question of amplification, is it?

For amplification, honestly, unless your church as a supreme sound system (ala Aloha Chris' Daedalus w/ Holy Grail [no pun intended] of amps and preamps), I think looking for any kind of "purist-approved" system may be a little much.

I'm not trying to discourage, but I think you could probably get by with a decent mic for home recording and a decent pickup system and be pretty well off...

[enigma]

All great responses to think about. I have a great mic at home for recording: AKG C3000B.

What I meant by the word "purist" I meant a pickup system that truly produces the natural sound of an acoustic guitar. I was always ambivalent with acoustic w/ built in systems - some better than others.

Basically, I'm looking for a pickup that would sound as if a mic was literally following my movement.

I'm not so set on K&K at the moment. I'm in no hurry

[ericcsong]

really depends on your budget. I think that multi source is the way to go. but even more importantly, I think preamps make a world of difference as well

[enigma]

Simple the better. Budget: $100 range for pickups and, perhaps, a bit more if it has volume control. I don't really want an EQ as that would theoretically color the natural guitar tone.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

I use mics for recording and recently converted from a UST user to a magnetic user and I don't see why some so-called purists reject anything that's not a mic. Let's be real: even the best mic can't reproduce the REAL sound of a guitar at 100% accuracy.

[alohachris]

Aloha Enigma,

One of the things that is difficult for even solo players like myself to understand is that you need a whole lot of great equipment - including great EQ - to get even a somewhat natural sound in amplifying an acoustic guitar.
And that great equipment must be complementary. So planning is in order. Otherwise, you're just throwing money at products you hope will work.

That statement kinda flies in the face of those trying to "keep it simple." Did ol' aloha really write "More equipment to keep it simple??" YES. That is the fact. (Enigma's the one who mentioned the couplet, "acoustic purist," right?

I know I didn't grok that concept for decades before I caught on. The bottom line is that no matter what pickup you choose, you're going to have to commit to thinking about, planning and buying ALL of the pieces you need to optimize the sound of that pickup in an acoustic guitar. It's the SUM your after.

One thing I can tell you from all the bad acoustic sounds I've heard at thousands of players' gigs over many years, is that you cannot try to amplify an acoustic guitar on the cheap, or stick a $100 single source in there, run it through an amp and call it a day. Why bother if that's all the energy you're willing to commit?

That's what's baffling to most of us players - the commitment & $ it takes to understand and implement the whole enchilada to achieve a result that is even close to what we have in our heads.

Enigma, you made this statement: " I don't really want an EQ as that would theoretically color the natural guitar tone."

But you absolutely NEED GREAT EQ - no matter the pickup, mic or amplification, or who is at your church mixing board -in order to control your tone and feedback in ANY venue, pro or at a home, that you will play in. If you want control over YOUR sound, you'd better think about that element as well.

There is no way around that! You might check out what equalization is and how it functions if you don't already know, and examine the EQ's and preamps that are most commonly used in acoustic guitar amplification. For example, some pickups work with some preamps, EQ, and additional sources better than others. You may decide to reconsider your statement.

Players think that you can amplifiy a $1000+ guitar successfully for a couple hundred bucks, in your case a $100 single-source pickup. I'm here to tell ya as a 47-year gigger that it cannot be done with professional or close to "natural" results. Even "good enough" takes a fair investment of planning, time, money and knowledge to achieve.

It's gaining the knowledge of how to use the equipment that will get you a favorable "SUM" of the parts. So keep your eye on the "SUM" that's in your head instead of only a pickup.

Start with a mic if you are a purist (something like the fairly cheap EV N/D 967 hypercardioid dynamic mic that refuses to feedback, for example). For me, even if I were a total hobbyist, if I wanted to amplify an acoustic guitar for more natural tone then I would never consider anything less than a dual source system, including a mic (if the venue allows it).

NO single pickup sounds "natural" when played alone! Mics are the closest you can get to the natural acoustic sound of your guitar. Multi-sources are preferred for their ability to work well in a variety of venues. It's that simple.

Good Luck,

alohachris

PS: No guys, I am not suggesting that Enigma buy the kind of rig I have, not at all. His purposes are completely different than mine. He may not even need a pickup! But the fact remains, he's going to have to learn about signal chains in order to use whatever he buys to achieve a satisfactory SUM. In this context, given what he says he wants, "keeping it simple" actually means buying more equipment and learning how to effectively harness it in a signal chain. - alohachris-

[jhchang]

Originally Posted by enigma

Basically, I'm looking for a pickup that would sound as if a mic was literally following my movement.

I'm not so set on K&K at the moment. I'm in no hurry

The most natural acoustic pickup: Shertler DYN-G.
Nothing closer to mic than this. Ain't cheap tho. But hey, how can the most natural tone be obtained cheaply?

[DrDavid]

Many choices, as previous replies indicate.

Since you're after the "as if a microphone were following me around" sound, you might want to take a look at the Miniflex 2Mic system. It can be set up to dual source in a custom configuration if desired. However, I use the 2Mic alone in a McIlroy and have been very pleased with the naturalness of the sound. Also, I have yet to encounter feedback problems.

http://miniflexmic.com/shop/

..

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by BigRed51

My head is spinning from the question!

I would not consider anyone who can answer this question, an acoustic purist. To me, an acoustic guitar is no longer acoustic when it plugs in to something ... I can only remember three times in 40 some years that I have connected a cable to an instrument.

I suppose it could be said that the ultimate acoustic purist would even oppose microphones. A practical, pragmatic acoustic purist understands that compromises have to be made in order to insure that a large audience can adequately hear his performance.

[lppier]

I have to chime in for the Anthem - anything closer would be a mic

[ericcsong]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Enigma, you made this statement: " I don't really want an EQ as that would theoretically color the natural guitar tone."

But you absolutely NEED GREAT EQ - no matter the pickup, mic or amplification, or who is at your church mixing board -in order to control your tone and feedback in ANY venue, pro or at a home, that you will play in. If you want control over YOUR sound, you'd better think about that element as well.

There is no way around that! You might check out what equalization is and how it functions if you don't already know, and examine the EQ's and preamps that are most commonly used in acoustic guitar amplification. For example, some pickups work with some preamps, EQ, and additional sources better than others. You may decide to reconsider your statement.

agreed 100%

[enigma]

Alohachris,

Thanks for the thoughtful comment! Very much appreciated as with others' comments.

I'll have to soak it all in, and delve into many of your suggestions such as Anthem, Shertler DYN-G and others. BTW, $100 budget was made in mind with K&K mini.

[Kohnodude]

a very good way to help you find an answer to your question is to go listen to (a lot of) local musicians and when you hear a sound you like, ask them what they use.

[enigma]

I know it's not the same, but I'm trying that via YouTube as a starting point.

[jennconducts]

Originally Posted by lppier

I have to chime in for the Anthem - anything closer would be a mic

+1, lppier.

Jenn