What is the value of High-End

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by dneal

If the metrics used to define “better” were well defined and measurable, the answer would be easy. Decibels, frequency range, response time, etc... could all hypothetically be measured and we could just look at a spec sheet. As we all know, “better” is instead a subjective appreciation of many less tangible things.

Then you add all the variables that go into pricing. Material and labor cost, market demand and availability are among the most important. Look at Martin’s line to keep somewhat to an “apples to apples” comparison. An OM45 DeLuxe Authentic’s MSRP is $100k. D45 Brazilian? $45k. D28 Brazilian? $20k. A standard D28? $3500. Why the extreme difference in price? Sure Brazilian rosewood and some extra abalone will raise the price, but to that extreme? Which is “better”?

Some years ago I discovered that price and brand doesn’t matter. I didn’t care for the sound of a (well-known) luthier-built guitar for $15k, for example. There was nothing wrong with the build or materials. The tonal profile just wasn’t to my taste. In the same shop on the same day, several other guitars were highly impressive at half the cost. On a different outing at a different shop I discovered an unknown luthier’s Brazilian OM priced at $3500 that was probably the best sounding guitar in the place (and there was well-known competition).

Guitars sound like they sound, and cost what they cost. Hopefully you can find a guitar that blows you away and you can afford. All the other mental machinations of cost and whatnot are futile.

EXACTLY!

A friend of mine and I were planing on making a pair of classical guitars. It had been 25 years since the last one that I made for him and I mentioned to him that the world of guitar making has changed a lot since then. I asked him what did he want different in the guitar he was going to make from the three previous guitars I made for him.

We decided to make a trip to one of the iconic music stores in the area that has a large inventory of new and used classical guitars. The purpose of the visit was to acquaint him with the new features/approaches used in recent guitar making. We played pretty much everything they had in price ranges from $1k to $14k, by well-known makers and unheard-of's. We played different types of woods, lattice bracing, fan bracing, big guitars, small guitars, cutaways, non-cutaways, raised fingerboards, non-raised fingerboards...

Our conclusion was that there was no identifiable correlation between "quality" of sound and price, wood types, guitar design and relative fame of the maker. The most expensive didn't sound "best"; those that were lattice braced didn't sound similar; guitars by famous makers weren't better than those by not-famous makers, guitars of similar wood combinations didn't sound the same as each other ... In short, we learned that each instrument is unique and must be assessed on its own merit. Not by brand, not by model, not by design features, not by price, but each as a unique instrument that did or did not meet our own subjective criteria for "good".

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by LakewoodM32Fan

It also depends on many factors, including your skill level....

Yeah, are you a professional recording artist? What are you using your guitars for? I don't gig, and I do some home recording. I've gone through a couple dozen guitars over the last 10 years, but after I got my Guilds, that's it! I have no need to continue searching. These are just the greatest. I've never even given a thought to a custom build.

[RussL30]

I don’t even know what is considered high end anymore . In my world, a $2000 guitar is very high end and I wouldn’t feel comfortable paying more than that even if I had more than that tied up in multiple guitars. My wheelhouse is $1-2k. So many great guitars from a variety of builders in that range.

There’s also some great guitars that can be had used in the sub 1k range. Eastman, Larrivee 3 series, some Guilds, some MIJ Taks, Yamaha L Series, Alvarez and some Yairis and the list goes on.

For some people, they wouldn’t even consider something under $4-5k. There’s no right or wrong, just what appeals to your ear and budget. I’m not a hot bluegrass picker or a finger style virtuoso and most super high end guitars seem geared towards on of those two, and that’s a big reason they don’t interest me.

[thepassivevoice]

Originally Posted by OKCtodd71

...
B) Once you get up to $2000 to $3000, the law of diminishing returns is quite strictly enforced. Many things including $$$ exotic woods and $$$ lone builder hand labor without power tools can add $$$ to the price of an instrument while adding little if anything at all to increased "performance/tone".
....

I agree completely. The main differences between a $1000 guitar and a $3000 guitar are woods, hardware, workmanship and finish. Given the high quality of modern production guitars, I don't think these features effect playability and tone much, if at all. However, the $3000 guitar will probably look nicer.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Bob

Nobody 'plans' to own 15 guitars. You acquire them organically 1 at a time when you find something that adds to your toolbox at a price that makes sense to you.

Oh ... so ... true!

[s2y]

The value is getting exactly what you want and need.

[Mycroft]

If you can hear the difference, then it has value.

[Brent Hahn]

I did a studio session with a celebrity a while back who came in with an Olson. Had an epiphany. Past a certain point, if you stink it's entirely your fault. But if you don't, the guitar gets at least part of the credit. Not sure I'd pay ten grand for that.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

If you can hear the difference, then it has value.

I'd also add "If you can hear and feel a difference..."

I'm not a great singer. Hell I'm not even a good singer. But both of the guitars I ended up purchasing on my recent trips (SCGC and H&D) both reverberated against my chest and made it easier for me to modulate my voice to be more in tune with the guitar than others I auditioned (and the 914ce and D32s which I used to own and traded in for the current set).

As I put in my write-ups, it was important for me to:

1. Hear what the guitar sounded like as a player
2. Feel what it sounded like against my body, and how it helped me get to the right pitch in singing
3. Like how it sounded as an audience member

All guitars sound different, so as others have said, make sure it speaks to you, on of the levels that are important to you. Your list may not look like mine, but be sure you know what you want out of your guitar. And again, bring your current acoustic(s) with you, so you have an apples to apples to comparison before you put your cash/credit card down.

I have to admit, I sweated over these two purchases, and it's been several months now and not a day goes by that I regret trading in those two guitars (plus cash) and buying these two. No buyer's remorse whatsoever, and I'm prone to that.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by LakewoodM32Fan

As I put in my write-ups, it was important for me to:

1. Hear what the guitar sounded like as a player
2. Feel what it sounded like against my body, and how it helped me get to the right pitch in singing
3. Like how it sounded as an audience member

Really interesting observation! Since you include the audience aspect, I guess you play out. I wonder if the physical-coupling aspect still applies in that louder, PA-and-monitors context.

[Pickcity]

Life is short. If it brings you happiness, there is the value.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Really interesting observation! Since you include the audience aspect, I guess you play out. I wonder if the physical-coupling aspect still applies in that louder, PA-and-monitors context.

Actually I had the proprietor play the same thing on all the guitars I'm auditioning. Something basic: open cowboy chords, standard progressions, and then I walk around the room and listen. The 2 acoustics I bought don't have any electronics installed.

[mercy]

Pick City said it all.If I could go back I would spend many thousands more than I did back then. I was ignorant and it took me some time to figure out what I liked. What Ive observed in the guitars Ive played is that the more you spend the more you get. Certainly there are exception to that.
And then there are people that like the sound of $500 guitars. The last guy I gave lessons to we went to a store and I showed him what would make it easier for him to learn but he decided on the glossy one that looked better. I dont know if hes still playing but he quit lessons pretty soon after that. I played some Mark Angus guitars and I wouldnt have given you $200 for them so theres another exception. But the general rule is defined by the bell shaped curve. Though Ive never played a super cheap guitar that was great.

[Br1ck]

At a certain point you are buying beautiful objects instead of tools. That french polish finish looks great, or not, depending on your own taste. And face it, irrespective of the quality of tone and playability, high cost buys you exclusivity as well as a fine instrument. Buying something is a combination of your own wants and needs related to your pocketbook. I know people that can afford a pre war Martin but would much rather have a D 45, or some new boutique Brazilian rosewood beauty.

At the $7000 plus level a guitar should really float your boat, and it's the maker's job to do that. I've always thought you are going to get most of what you are going to get in the $2,000-3,000 range. It's like the level of bling on a fine over/under shotgun. Any of them will do the job, but the highest grade is going to make your heart go pitter pat knowing it is yours.

[PeterMN]

Brands like Eastman are a testiment to the fact that you don't need to spend a ton for a great guitar. People aren't delusional when they say their $500 Eastmans rival others costing several times that.