Timing, timing and more timing

wrbriggs · #1 08-30-2012, 09:26 PM

Even though I give this advice myself (play with a metronome), I'm guilty of not doing it nearly as often as I should... I need to say, as someone without a lot of experience playing with others, that trying to record yourself playing both the accompaniment and melody to a song is REALLY REALLY difficult! I thought to myself this evening "Gee, I've practiced this beginner arrangement of Man of Constant Sorrow a bunch lately, I should be able to record both parts and have it sound relatively decent".

This travesty is what I ended up with:
https://www.box.com/s/bn8nsbiktlk3dm...7/3021902757/1

Besides a couple of the ugly flubs that I still make simply because I suck, I had a very difficult time keeping both parts at the same tempo. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve this (other than using a metronome, which I plan on getting back into my routine as often as possible)?

Thanks,
Will

rick-slo · #2 08-30-2012, 09:41 PM

A metronome won't help here. Just play it through a number of times to get the feel down, then record.

P.S. Post this question on the Play section of the forum.

zabdart · #3 08-30-2012, 09:46 PM

It sounds dumb, but try practicing with a metronome. It should improve your ability to get things in snyc. Once you've done that, you can work on things like vocal phrasing.
There's a famous story about Arturo Toscanini rehearsing Robert Merrill for a performance of Beethoven's 9th Symphony with the NBC Symphony Orchestra. Toscanini didn't approve of the way Merrill phrased a particular section of his part and said: "My dear Merrill, it goes like this." He then tapped the beat on each of Merrill's shoulders while he was singing until he got the rhythm correct.

Tele1111 · #4 08-30-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

A metronome won't help here. Just play it through a number of times to get the feel down, then record.

Rick is giving you good advice.
Do use a metronome to practice, the rewards will pay off in spades.
But since you're not used to playing with others, or yourself in this instance, practice is needed as it is in every other facet of playing.

No need to be so hard on yourself either. There are plenty of people that'll do that for you. Don't be one of them. There's no need, and it certainly won't help you.
You'll get it with work and dedication. Remember that.

Mark

fishstick_kitty · #5 08-31-2012, 07:06 AM

I can't imagine recording something like that without a click track because it's so slow.

Howard Emerson · #6 08-31-2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrbriggs

Even though I give this advice myself (play with a metronome), I'm guilty of not doing it nearly as often as I should... I need to say, as someone without a lot of experience playing with others, that trying to record yourself playing both the accompaniment and melody to a song is REALLY REALLY difficult! I thought to myself this evening "Gee, I've practiced this beginner arrangement of Man of Constant Sorrow a bunch lately, I should be able to record both parts and have it sound relatively decent".

This travesty is what I ended up with:
https://www.box.com/s/bn8nsbiktlk3dm...7/3021902757/1

Besides a couple of the ugly flubs that I still make simply because I suck, I had a very difficult time keeping both parts at the same tempo. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve this (other than using a metronome, which I plan on getting back into my routine as often as possible)?

Thanks,
Will

Hi Will,
I never use metronomes because they keep slowing down. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

I would suggest that when you do the overdub that you have your original guitar LOUDER in your cans than the part you're putting over the original, and do not tap your foot, or otherwise try to keep time during the overdub.

You have to respond to your original track from a much more physical point of view. Repeated listening to your original track can greatly facilitate a more cohesive melding of the parts.

Also: Don't try to control your breathing at all. Don't worry about extraneous noise, etc. The only thing that counts is you being one with yourself.

The moment that, long ago, I realized that I could not be totally silent when recording, the immediate improvement in performance was huge.

HE
It Ain't Necessarily So: http://howardemerson.com/music2.html

Bern · #7 08-31-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrbriggs

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve this (other than using a metronome, which I plan on getting back into my routine as often as possible)?

Swing your body left to right and back, etc. , imagine your dancing.
As far as the metronome...some people can work with a metronome, others don't or can't.

Paikon · #8 08-31-2012, 08:36 AM

my teacher taught me how to use a metronome and from that time i understood what metronomes are there for...
play a scale, just one, at 60 with a metronome...when its close to perfection try recording your song...it will be 100 times better
i m talking about rhythm...when you 've got rhythm right try swinging

zabdart · #9 08-31-2012, 10:56 AM

If you don't like using a metronome, try tapping your foot to the beat very lightly when you practice. One, two or One, two, three or One, two, three, four. If something's off kilter, it will show up. Just keep practicing until it doesn't show up. That's the easiest way I know. Eventually, you'll develop your own internal clock and won't need the foot-tapping crutch.

DesertTwang · #10 08-31-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick_kitty

I can't imagine recording something like that without a click track because it's so slow.

Exactly. I have to say when the OP announced the recording as "travesty," I expected such. I think it sounds really good! Not in perfect time, but hey, at this slow of a tempo? That's pretty darn hard to do. I play lots of fast bluegrass, and this recording made me realize how it is so much easier to play in time (or close to being in time) when you play fast stuff.

I think you should pat yourself on the back, man, and just try it with a click track, or, play the song at its original speed (or close to that).

Sounds like a really good start to me, so keep it up! By the way, I really do like this slow version of a song that I've ever heard played much, much faster. It's kinda cool.

wrbriggs · #11 08-31-2012, 07:59 PM

Thank you everyone for your responses! I'm going to continue working with a metronome, and also try to play this a little faster - I usually practice it faster, but couldn't get the two tracks even close to synced up unless I slowed it down to the speed on the recording.

One of the hardest things was getting the slurs in time; the method I've been working from (Modern Method for Guitar V1) doesn't really do hammer-ons, pull-offs or slides (so far), so working on this song was really my first experience trying them. I also had trouble making the chord changes in the accompaniment fast enough, but hey, that's probably why everyone strongly suggests playing songs to learn! It's a much better motivator to improve than just doing rote exercises over and over again.

wrbriggs · #12 08-31-2012, 08:54 PM

Just wanted to say thank you again to everyone - I practiced a new song a bit with the metronome, then recorded at a faster tempo than the last one - it's far from perfect, but it turned out a bit better - short instrumental version of the old song "Rain and Snow":
https://www.box.com/s/jrmg47t5ebbxqs18b33b.