A question on finger picking patterns

[phxguy]

I primarily play fingerstyle but never really learned specific patterns and for the most part am self taught. When I started out, way back when, a friend showed me the basics of using your thumb for bass strings and your fingers for the treble strings and that was the extent of it. This was when I was a teenager and messed around with guitar for a few years (cowboy chords and remained a beginner) and then took a 35 year hiatus, I am now 62. I have been able to figure out a few songs where I can pick out the melody while finger picking but I simply do it because it sounds right to me with no real thought as to how I am doing it. I have been looking at specific patterns to get to another level in my playing and my question is how do you decide or know which pattern is most appropriate for a particular song? This may sound like a stupid question to the more advanced players but I would really like to progress to a more precise or exacting level of playing and not just use some random pattern because it sounds good to me. I know that I am missing out on some valuable knowledge. Thank you for reading this rather long post.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by phxguy

because it sounds good to me

This is the ultimate answer isn't it.

[phxguy]

rick-slo,

I appreciate your response but the ultimate problem is that it keeps my playing and repertoire of songs very limited if the melody doesn't fit into my basic fingerpicking style. I probably wasn't clear on that point.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by phxguy

rick-slo,

I appreciate your response but the ultimate problem is that it keeps my playing and repertoire of songs very limited if the melody doesn't fit into my basic fingerpicking style. I probably wasn't clear on that point.

Learn a variety of other people's songs note for note until you get your experience level and bag of tricks enlarged. Outside of very specific (and thus rather confined and limited) genres there is no right answer as to what pattern to use is best.

[Hotspur]

A lot of people swear by Mark Hanson's books on the subject. I've got one of them and it's fantastic. Highly recommended.

[Smurf]

Mark Hanson's Art of Contemporary Travis Picking & Art of Solo Fingerpicking are great "course" books..I learned a TON from them!

If you are looking for a collection of fingerstyle patterns to get under your fingers I would recommend "Fingerpicking Pattern Encyclopedia" by Lou Manzi. A little over 200 patterns & 13 "tunes" to play. Once I started working thru the book I recognized a lot of them from songs I heard, and combining them are a great workout for me.

Just this week I pulled it out & ran thru it front to back just to practice. Grab it with the CD if you can.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by phxguy

I primarily play fingerstyle but never really learned specific patterns and for the most part am self taught. When I started out, way back when, a friend showed me the basics of using your thumb for bass strings and your fingers for the treble strings and that was the extent of it. This was when I was a teenager and messed around with guitar for a few years (cowboy chords and remained a beginner) and then took a 35 year hiatus, I am now 62. I have been able to figure out a few songs where I can pick out the melody while finger picking but I simply do it because it sounds right to me with no real thought as to how I am doing it. I have been looking at specific patterns to get to another level in my playing and my question is how do you decide or know which pattern is most appropriate for a particular song? This may sound like a stupid question to the more advanced players but I would really like to progress to a more precise or exacting level of playing and not just use some random pattern because it sounds good to me. I know that I am missing out on some valuable knowledge. Thank you for reading this rather long post.

Hmm...after having down a variety of patterns you should be able to figure most of that stuff out yourself, IMO, based on what you're describing in your post. As a matter of fact, it'll be better for you in the long run. Most of the finger picking music is kind of a mix of pattern & random picking. Sure, you can buy all kinds helpful DVDs or books, but the bottom line is YOU have to do it and ultimately put the effort into it.
My suggestion...learn a couple of simple classical pieces (there are lots of them). That will get you out of patterns in a hurry. It'll make your picking hand more independent.
Good luck !

[Ridings]

Hi phxguy!

I myself have only (compared to a bunch of people here!) been playing for 4 years I think, and also got stuck with fingerstyle, mainly because it's just so much fun and sounds really great! Others have come with great suggestions about books to look at to get the basic patterns down. Alot of the great tunes are played mainly with simple patterns (the Beatles, Bob Dylan, etc) and vocals. Like other said, once you learn looking at a pattern, it will probably (might) jog your memory, as so many songs are based around similar patterns.

I also think that what you are doing sounds pretty good, i.e, that you can personalize your own playing and play by feeling. It's probably a good ability to have, and apply to, the patterns you start learning, as you won't be as chained to their specifics. Just adding or dropping a treble will make a difference, in my opinion.

Eventually, I guess it also depends on where you want to go and what you want to do. In my case, I'm not much of a singer (although I try, when I'm alone) so I prefer the playing part. That means I want to be picking out a songs melody and not just the rythmn pattern. I've got great help from downloading lessons from either Stefan Grossmans Guitar Workshop or Homespun Tapes. It's a download client where you purchase digitial DVDs, along with tabs etc. That way I could focus my playing better and learn exactly what I wanted. Along side that, I'll be doing specific songs that I enjoy, but for me personally, they've helped to enhance my training and playing greatly.

Best of luck to you!

I'm at a point where I don't even think about patterns anymore. As rote as the mechanics of placing an open chord are, that's the same that occurs with using patterns now. I'm almost unconscious of what to use and when. It just happens as naturally as breathing and I know (listened to) many people who are also at that level of play. It's a learned thing, for sure, and there's nothing about it that practice won't bring.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by phxguy

I primarily play fingerstyle but never really learned specific patterns and for the most part am self taught. When I started out, way back when, a friend showed me the basics of using your thumb for bass strings and your fingers for the treble strings and that was the extent of it. This was when I was a teenager and messed around with guitar for a few years (cowboy chords and remained a beginner) and then took a 35 year hiatus, I am now 62. I have been able to figure out a few songs where I can pick out the melody while finger picking but I simply do it because it sounds right to me with no real thought as to how I am doing it. I have been looking at specific patterns to get to another level in my playing and my question is how do you decide or know which pattern is most appropriate for a particular song? This may sound like a stupid question to the more advanced players but I would really like to progress to a more precise or exacting level of playing and not just use some random pattern because it sounds good to me. I know that I am missing out on some valuable knowledge. Thank you for reading this rather long post.

I associate patterns in fingerpicking with exercises for beginners. The way you describe your own way of playing is where people normally go to after they've learned patterns. Patterns can give you a range of rhythmical opportunities so do study them if you want to but I suspect they wont take you to where you want to go. (The exception to this would be if you have not yet mastered the alternating thumb technique. What follows will work best if you have this first.)

My recommendation would be to check out (if you haven't already) the basics of what's called the CAGED system. I've always thought of this as EDCAG but CAGED is a better acronym.

Play an open E. Put a bar at fret 2 and play a D shape on the bar and you've got E again.

Put a bar on fret 4 and play a C shape on that and you've got E again.

Put a bar at fret 7 and play an A shape and once again you've got E.

Finally put a bar at fret 9 and play a G shape and you've fot another E chord.

I'm not suggesting you learn to play these shapes as chords as much as recognise (surprise surprise) the 'pattern' of the different inversions of the same chord.

You change key by moving the pattern up or down the neck. Stuff that disappears past the 12th fret reappears at the nut and vise versa.

So using this set of patterns, take a melody you play in one key and try playing it around the different positions or different chords and see what bass notes you can find. Good luck.

[lovetheclassics]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Learn a variety of other people's songs note for note until you get your experience level and bag of tricks enlarged.

This is what I do. Examples:

1) Blackbird. fingerplucking and finger strumming. (most people on Youtube do it WRONG) if you watch and listen to Sir Paul play it.

2) Dear Prudence, John Lennon

3) Bron Yr Aur, Jimmy Page

4) Dust in the Wind, Kansas

5) Freight train, Elizabeth Cotton

6) Sound of Silence, Paul Simon

7) Play Me, Neil Diamond

See my post on Jorma Kaukonen...