Left hand and arm position

[Jackknifegypsy]

Aside from practicing, playing, and noodling around with the acoustic guitar, does anyone have any suggestions to speed up the process of forming the habit of holding the left hand and arm at the correct, and proper angles?

It seems the arm is out there in space, with the elbow wobbling, and is subject to gravity, wayardness, and other weaknesses that either tire one out trying to hold the correct position, or I am doing it wrong.

Are there specific exercises anyone uses to keep the wrist bent and cupped at all times? Or to position the forearm, the upper arm, and shoulder correctly?

I made a severely comma shaped wooden brace that I velcro around my lower forearm, that forces the wrist into the correct position, to wear when I am not playing, for 20 minutes or so, but it seems to be causing some nerve irritation if I do it more than twice a week.

Any other ideas?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

Aside from practicing, playing, and noodling around with the acoustic guitar, does anyone have any suggestions to speed up the process of forming the habit of holding the left hand and arm at the correct, and proper angles?

Hi Jack...

Yes. Unless you are going to adopt a purely Classical posture (left knee, left foot on a footstool, near vertical neck) which is very rigidly defined…you can put on a strap and stand and see as you adjust the guitar where both hands are ergonomically best fitted to the guitar so you are not cranking either wrist.

Note the angle of the body and neck. When in proper position, the neck is usually slightly elevated, the body of the guitar rotated downward, and the upper bout centered on the body.

Then you attempt to duplicate that same position when you sit.

I work with students on this quite a bit when they first come, because most players left to their own devices don't end up with a good posture for player.

I might add, it's different with players who have different sized bodies, and have never really found an 'average' description where 'one size fits all'. It's based partly on comfort, and partly on efficiency, and usually places the body of the guitar in a different position than just dropping the waist of the guitar over a thigh.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Jack...

near vertical neck)[/I]

Am I right in assuming you mean near vertical face of fretboard? With this I would agree. Ideally the guitar neck is about 45 degrees from the vertical. And this is close to the classical ideal position, which is also close to my optimum position for posture and accessibility which I get standing and playing with a short strap. A lot of players, when sitting, lower the neck until it is almost horizontal. This is comfortable for certain types of playing but makes other stuff difficult. The point about the 45 degree angle is that it allows you a wide spectrum of hand positions. You can do wide stretches, you can do thumb on 6th string. It's versatile. It's not all that good when sitting on a sofa.

[Jackknifegypsy]

Many thanks to both of you....I've never played with a strap, but i'm going to give this a try.

[Mellow_D]

Originally Posted by stanron

Ideally the guitar neck is about 45 degrees from the vertical. And this is close to the classical ideal position, which is also close to my optimum position for posture and accessibility which I get standing and playing with a short strap. A lot of players, when sitting, lower the neck until it is almost horizontal. This is comfortable for certain types of playing but makes other stuff difficult. The point about the 45 degree angle is that it allows you a wide spectrum of hand positions. You can do wide stretches, you can do thumb on 6th string. It's versatile. It's not all that good when sitting on a sofa.

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Note the angle of the body and neck. When in proper position, the neck is usually slightly elevated, the body of the guitar rotated downward, and the upper bout centered on the body.

Then you attempt to duplicate that same position when you sit.

Can either of you, or any member here, post pictures showing these recommended ways of holding the guitar, of the angle of the neck, where on the thigh, of how to sit, and these other aspects.

Thanks

[Davis Webb]

http://guitarprinciples.com/Guitar_T...ue/sitting.htm

Note that in the casual position he uses a footrest, essential. That helps set up the body position and I cannot overemphasize how important this is for many reasons. Note the arm is at 45 degrees and his wrist is level with his forearm, that joint should remain fixed.

This is ergonomic for several reasons. For one, gravity pulls at the arm and helps straighten it, requiring you to only support your forearm with the brachialis and bicep muscles, which at that angle of 45 degrees, generate maximum force with minimum energy expenditure. The reason for this is physiological and rather esoteric, it provides maximum force by aligning muscle fibers (actin and myosin) into their best position. But this is a bit too much explanation, the outcome is that maintaining that force gives you a solid platform for your left hand to move along the neck. Think of your elbow as a stationary pivot point, the forearm moves across the guitar neck. The same principle is used in all karate blocking, the forearm simply piviots across the stationary elbow. That fixes the elbow into position and relieves stress on the shoulders.

Bad arm position often shows up as back and neck pain, because the body isnt lined up properly and the other muscles take up the slack of positioning.

HtH

[Jackknifegypsy]

Thx for the pictorial: Very helpful

re: the left elbow.

"his wrist is level with his forearm, that joint should remain fixed". Which casual position are you referring to? I don't see the 45 degree angle but in the very last photo.



Mine tends to drift inward, when I'm concentrating on some other aspect of practice, to my left rib cage, where it seems to seek a place from which the forearm can pivot.

I assume it is wrong to allow this to happen but how do you, other than inserting a 'spacer' between the rib cage and the upper arm, or simply working at holding it 'out there'. make this an iron clad habit?

[stanron]

In the pictures posted by Davis Webb, counting from the top, left to right, the 45 degree angle of the guitar neck is shown in the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th pictures. I usually advise against the sharp angle at the wrist of the fretting hand seen in these. That nearly 90 degree angle can result in pain if maintained. My preferred wrist angle is 0 degrees. Occasional changes of angle, in either direction, are OK for occasional fingering.

So, given the 45 degree neck angle and the straight fretting wrist, position the guitar on the strap so you can fret anywhere you want on the fretboard.

If I sit with the guitar with the strap on I have to twist one way or the other, But I do most of my serious practice and playing standing.