How much acoustic is enough in a song?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by b1j

I’ve participated in many threads here in the forum, and followed many more. I have to say, this one is the most enjoyable one for me. Thank you to everyone for your rich comments. Please know that I carefully read and listened to every part of all of them. I’d offer my comments now, but I just set up the LDC mic in my wife’s closet, and I’m about to put down the first rough vocal track in the song. When that is mixed, I’ll have the rough backing track for the song. I will take the advice offered here and use that track to let inspiration come over me about how to adjust each section of this song. Then I’ll put those parts in.

Fair warning: it’s gonna be pretty grim, owing to my skill level. Maybe once I have it I’ll post it over in the play and write forum, and ask for feedback, to help me generate ideas for improvement and embellishment.

Just a thought as there is no right or wrong
But what I would do if I'm planing on developing with multiple instruments is lay down a basic rhythm guitar tracks first (just the basic chord structure and even if you don't end up using it ) then next dub the vocal to that ---Just a thought.

[Bob from Brooklyn]

What is the purpose of your recording? Are you making a demo or something to be 'released'. I try to keep a minimalist approach and make sure I have my lyrics and phrasing nailed down before adding too much.

[b1j]

And one, and two, and...cue the leaf blower. A little break in the tracking action, so I'll add a few thoughts.

I have always thought of the best "singer/songwriters" as having the requisite talents with
– writing lyrics
– composing music: melody and harmonic structure
– playing one or more instruments
– singing

But I could also see and hear that the best ones were talented arrangers. Yes, maybe they had producers who helped with this. But it's no accident when the interplay of the vocal and the instruments (and the silences) produces a result that adds as much to the song as any of the other elements listed above. Frequently one or two of them stand out, but just as often the arrangement elevates an already good song to a masterpiece.

Over several weeks I wrote the words for this song and then fashioned them into verses with distinct meters and rhyming patterns. There is a narrative flow, a story that builds throughout and culminates with the same simple statement that opens the song. Along the way I went after the melody and chords that came to me like left and right steps walking together through the dark. I practiced singing the message of the song (it's an ode) and have found inflections that work –– for now. That left the arrangement: in this case, the decisions of what and how to play on the guitar that led me to starting this thread.

Well, last week I settled on a crude sequence of guitar picking and strumming that has become the first draft of the instrumentation. Make no mistake; I am completely undecided about how it will eventually turn out. But knowing my tendency to waffle, I set a deadline of this coming weekend to finish the guitar and voice all the way through the song, on the beat, in tune, and with no note dropouts or mistakes. It has mixed well enough, but sonically is arguably borderline horrible. Still, the deadline forced me to let the Good Enough win out over the Perfect. It was probably the most productive step of getting this song done so far.

The leaf blower has stopped. Time to press the red button.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Bob from Brooklyn

What is the purpose of your recording? Are you making a demo or something to be 'released'. I try to keep a minimalist approach and make sure I have my lyrics and phrasing nailed down before adding too much.

Bob, thanks for asking that important question. My immediate goal is to send an mp3 of the crude guitar/voice track to a professional musical duo who play the music of the subject of the ode. It's my hope they will play it, and maybe it will end up on one of their YouTube videos so that other fans of my subject will be able to enjoy it.

Whether that happens or not, I do plan to move ahead afterwards with some kind of elegant but restrained arrangement for my own long-term enjoyment.

[JKA]

I tend to try and put all my ideas down as I hear them in my head. I then spend the majority of my time getting rid of 80% leaving me with a finished song. You only need enough to make the song work.

[jaymarsch]

Congratulations on letting go of perfect and also for getting the inner critic/editor out of the way until it’s their turn.
I agree that this thread has been great and covers lots of good information and suggestions. Thanks for kicking it off.
Best,
Jayne

[b1j]

Oh my goodness.

One take. I have the vocal. Did I mention one take?

Now it's off to a little Melodyne (not much I expect) and taking out some breaths and paper rattling. Then I'm going to mix the puppy and email it to the duo.

I have sung the song to myself in my waking and sleeping hours for many months. Today I can quote that immortal Dylan line, "I know my song well before I start singing."

Let's be fair: the vocal is quite raw. I leave much to be desired as a vocalist. But the feeling is there and the emphasis seems to land well in all the important places. I am quite pleased.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

It sounds as if you are doing your own recording, so studio expenses are not a consideration. If so, then record it several different ways, then listen to each, play them for others for second opinions. Then decide what is best.

When I compose, I generally fool around with it for some time, taking my time to make musical decisions. For me, it takes longer to hone the words than the sound. This process always takes a few hours - and sometimes even many months before I am satisfied.

Hey Bard, thanks for the comments. Yes, I am in my house. I now have a passable guitar scratch track, and I notice that I did vary the playing from verse to chorus to verse. I now have it to sit back and listen to, so the next phase of this song will be to decide what to aim for in each verse, and even each phrase.

To your comment about the lyrics: I cultivated mine over many weeks. When inspiration would hit at all hours of the day or night, I'd head back to the Word document and make an edit. Over time the song developed.

[b1j]

I should step in and say that I'm now going to take the time to respond to the wonderful comments here. I'm never sure about forum etiquette: should an OP jump in and stir the embers long after the last commenter has moved on? Oh well, here goes.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by KevWind

With an new original, that "pre feeling" has not yet developed and could be why you are undecided .. So perhaps wait a while to record and just keep playing and practicing until you develop that feeling of how it should sound in your mind which could then give some direction for the way you want to play it and record it ????????????

Kev, that's pretty much exactly what I've done over the past few months. I've played the song over and over on the guitar, with my voice, and in my head, in both waking and sleeping hours (yes, I've dreamed the entire song). I was surprised and delighted today when I nailed the vocal of the entire 6-minute song in the first single take, but it was no doubt due to the months of preparation and rehearsal. I guess producers call this pre-production. So your advice seems spot on.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I am mostly a solo singer songwriter who occasionally plays with one other guitar player but, depending on the song, These are some things that I consider with my arrangements:
- I like the accompaniment to build as a song progresses. So I may start out sparse with just a rhythmic figure or a simple bass line
- I have lyrics and I want those to be heard so and embellishments are put in either at the end of a line or used to link the verse and chorus
- I will sometimes finger pick the verses and strum the chorus or maybe use chord melody for an instrumental break or bridge
- I explore moving the chord progression up the neck and play it there for a verse to play with variations on the melody or try out some inversions, chord substitutions, experiment with where a bass run might work
- I will analyze a song that I really like to see what choices have been made with instrumentation and particularly the guitar part
Nothing too innovative here, just how I approach it. So many ways to do it and I try and let the emotion of the song dictate these decisions so the song ebbs and flows - where do I want the tension to build and where does it release?
Enjoy the process and please let us know how it goes.
Best,
Jayne

Hi Jayne, I've been eager to reply to your comments.

What you are describing gets to the gist of my post: how to design and build the instrumentation over the arc of a song. What I now have to work with is a guitar scratch track and an unexpectedly polished vocal track. Since the single guitar had all the heavy lifting to do, there were no other instruments to bring in. But my plan is to use the scaffold of the scratch track to bring in other instruments and create the tension/release dynamic you describe. Playing inversions up the neck is a great idea. Already I hear varied playing styles in the scratch track: fingerpicking/travis picking/Stephen Stills-type picking in places, strumming here, plucking there. I also have in mind to use the Nashville strung guitar somewhere to bring the energy either up or down (it can do either). Other brushes in the quiver include bass, drum/rhythm, keyboard accents, and acoustic lead lines to repeat themes in between the lyric lines.All the while I'll fight the urge to gild the lily.

With many songs I like, I find that the arrangement is as much of the reason as any other element. I'll keep your post as I navigate through the upcoming build-out phase.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Stonehauler

I've been playing...sorry, trying to play and learning all the stuff I am doing wrong...Paul Simon's music recently. What I am learning from him is that he does a lot of variations to help keep it from sounding repetitive.
Taking examples from my book's version of "The Sound of Silence"
First off, the version I am learning has me fingerpicking a broken chord for the first verse and the the last few bars.
The next verse, the book introduces a 1/4, 1/8, 1/8, 1/4, 1/8, 1/8, | 1/4, 1/8, 1/8, 1/8, 1/8, 1/8, 1/8 rhythm. On the first measure, my book changes the chord as well on the upstroke beats. So for G, he goes from a three fingered G on the downstroke, and on the 1/8 note upstroke, it's just the A, D, G strings that are played. When the Am is played, he again has you playing the A, D, G as open on the 1/4, 1/8, 1/8, 1/4, 1/8, 1/8 measure. The 1/4 and 6-1/8 note measures are just the normal up/down strokes on the same chords.
My version also has an F to C to G/B (only playing the 4 middle strings) back to C progression or an F to C, to G/B to Am, to G/B and back to C progression. To me, this gives a really nice sound that the audience won't get tired of the same down, down, down/up down rhythm.

For Mrs. Robinson, it's a nice base note strum pattern 1/4, 1/4, 1/8, 1/8, 1/8, 1/8, but he places some nice bass note runs in there as well to break up the pattern.

Stone, I've found that Scarborough Fair uses highly distinctive and varied guitar segments like the haunting and unusual intro and full chord strums. The one guitar carries most of the variety in the song. Not all, though: surely the harpsichord and glockenspiel bring in color.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

My goal is to play the guitar so well when I accompany songs that no-one notices it (except, perhaps, other guitar players). I think that the guitar arrangement Johnathan Byrd has created for this song in the video above is just a beautiful match (it is a favourite song of mine to sing and play). In fact, he is good artist to explore on YouTube if you are looking for acoustic guitar arrangements for songs (and his song writing is excellent too).

Not too much, not too little - and it should just be a part of the song as a whole.

Robin, wow. That was a tour de force. Thank you.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

hi b1j…
It's an art and a balancing act sometimes.

I don't ever want my guitar parts to walk on the vocals, yet I don't want to just lay back and strum where there's room for some tasty ornamentation.


I highly recommend a listen to Bob Bennett's "Carpenter Gone Bad" - a great example of semi-complex guitar and singing. He's just fun to watch and listen to.

Bob's guitar parts are really interesting, and varied, somewhat complex (especially noticeable when learning them) and not invasive over his vocals.

OK, that guy can play. This is like a voice/guitar repartee.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by kurth

For vocals, I recommend building a modeling comp of how you want to phrase, and then try singing that phrasing for the final. With phrasing, it's amazing how much choice there is. I personally don't like a comp'ed vocal, but it's useful for sketching the phrasing for the final version. Although Billy Eilish says she uses comping syllables to arrive at a finish product, with hundreds of vocal files creating the finished vocal of a particular song, with an acoustically based song, imho, it's too artificial. As well with too much orchestration. Acoustic music by it's true nature must be open enough to hear the air.

As I've mentioned above, it looks like I did the complete opposite of Billy Eilish's stated vocal method. Although, to be fair, I did sculpt a few discrete notes here and there with Melodyne.