Tragedy on London Bridge.

[lkingston]

In counterbalance, one of the heros who stopped this was another killer out early.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by lkingston

In counterbalance, one of the heros who stopped this was another killer out early.

that was reported initially but then, omitted.

However the meeting which the attacker and the two young victims attended which was to discuss how best to rehabilitate and assist ex prisoners.

It is likely that the gent in question was attending the same meeting.

[Gitfiddlemann]

I think that rehabilitation is a noble and just cause, worthy of pursuit by a civil society, but obviously, we need to get a lot better at it.
As a prisoner grouping, ideologically driven psychopathic killers that plot to commit mass murder of innocent civilians on a grand scale should be treated accordingly when it comes to rehabilitation programs, and not lumped in together with the general criminal population. (How does that work in the UK?).
8 years early release for such an individual? who was planning to kill hundreds of innocents? No. Something's not right with the system, and an indication that there is a lot more about genuine rehabilitation that we don't understand.
I hope that a lot of genuine progress will be forthcoming in this regard as a result of this unfortunate loss of life.
You also seemed surprised that your policemen were equipped with firearms. I'm not going to get into that part of your point too deeply, but it struck me the other day, when reading about the brazen break-in in Dresden of billions worth of priceless jewelry, that the whole thing was caught on video, live, by the castle's security detail, all of whom were weaponless.
That, I found astonishing. No wonder the thieves didn't care who was watching.
My point is that there is a happy medium somewhere, in a just and civil society, for trained and uniformed individuals tasked with the protection of innocents, be they human beings, defenseless animals or priceless artifacts, to be armed accordingly. Otherwise, opportunistic criminals, killers and terrorists will take full advantage. I really believe that.
And that will be my last post!

[Lkristians]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

I wonder if the UK will alter its law not to allow a convicted terrorist out of prison early.

Convicted terrorists should be executed. Zero tolerance.Won't "get released" to harm another day.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I think that rehabilitation is a noble and just cause, worthy of pursuit by a civil society, but obviously, we need to get a lot better at it.
As a prisoner grouping, ideologically driven psychopathic killers that plot to commit mass murder of innocent civilians on a grand scale should be treated accordingly when it comes to rehabilitation programs, and not lumped in together with the general criminal population. (How does that work in the UK?).
8 years early release for such an individual? who was planning to kill hundreds of innocents? No. Something's not right with the system, and an indication that there is a lot more about genuine rehabilitation that we don't understand.
I hope that a lot of genuine progress will be forthcoming in this regard as a result of this unfortunate loss of life.
You also seemed surprised that your policemen were equipped with firearms. I'm not going to get into that part of your point too deeply, but it struck me the other day, when reading about the brazen break-in in Dresden of billions worth of priceless jewelry, that the whole thing was caught on video, live, by the castle's security detail, all of whom were weaponless.
That, I found astonishing. No wonder the thieves didn't care who was watching.
My point is that there is a happy medium somewhere, in a just and civil society, for trained and uniformed individuals tasked with the protection of innocents, be they human beings, defenseless animals or priceless artifacts, to be armed accordingly. Otherwise, opportunistic criminals, killers and terrorists will take full advantage. I really believe that.
And that will be my last post!

I'm with you on not dismissing rehabilitation as much as I know we have confirmed incorrigible. I was not always that way.

I've worked with people in prison release and on probation. When I finally finished college a most interesting twist was some guys doing the same were among those prison release workers when I was a truck driver.

Two in my childhood killed people. That's my view of the split. One was always just not right. The system worked correctly in that case. One locked up for 40+ years and counting. One rehabilitated and also raised someone else's kids hoping they would not repeat his mistakes.

There will always be some incorrigible among us. Vigilance and managing your own fear is probably the best we can do about it.

We should look in the mirror too. Tragedy and misfortune can happen to any of our families. I had a sad moment recently when the mom in a fine and upper middle class family I know said their son is still in a mental hospital 4+ months with nothing working yet. He can't stop the urge to do damage to something - himself, others, property, and he gets socio-political stuff mixed into the tragic mess. Friends with an autistic child walk a fine line and need constant supervision to avoid big trouble.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I think that rehabilitation is a noble and just cause, worthy of pursuit by a civil society, but obviously, we need to get a lot better at it.
As a prisoner grouping, ideologically driven psychopathic killers that plot to commit mass murder of innocent civilians on a grand scale should be treated accordingly when it comes to rehabilitation programs, and not lumped in together with the general criminal population. (How does that work in the UK?).
8 years early release for such an individual? who was planning to kill hundreds of innocents? No. Something's not right with the system, and an indication that there is a lot more about genuine rehabilitation that we don't understand.
I hope that a lot of genuine progress will be forthcoming in this regard as a result of this unfortunate loss of life.
You also seemed surprised that your policemen were equipped with firearms. I'm not going to get into that part of your point too deeply, but it struck me the other day, when reading about the brazen break-in in Dresden of billions worth of priceless jewelry, that the whole thing was caught on video, live, by the castle's security detail, all of whom were weaponless.
That, I found astonishing. No wonder the thieves didn't care who was watching.
My point is that there is a happy medium somewhere, in a just and civil society, for trained and uniformed individuals tasked with the protection of innocents, be they human beings, defenseless animals or priceless artifacts, to be armed accordingly. Otherwise, opportunistic criminals, killers and terrorists will take full advantage. I really believe that.
And that will be my last post!

Hi, I don't profess any great knowledge of our prison system or of prison sentences. I do understand that our prisons are old, inefficient, undermanned and overcrowded. I can only assume that this chap was considered safe to allow out - albeit with a monitoring device attached. That will result in a long enquiry and investigation.

No, I am not surprised at an "Armed Response Unit" (a car with two men with direct access to mortal weapons) was in the general area and on site within five minutes. This area of central London is a sensitive area as has been proven in the past.

Further, I have seen an "ARU" in action in my own little city. Guns were actually visible but not used. It was, indeed very shocking.

Sadly now at any visit to an airport or other port of entry you will see armed police patrols. However the standard patrol cars and foot patrols do not carry firearms.

I am surprised that the ARU officer actually shot the attacker, although I suspect that the mock "suicide vest" sealed his fate. That officer will now face endless questioning, review and such, as we do not take lightly the killing of criminals.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I am surprised that the ARU officer actually shot the attacker,

Being a peace officer is a job. No employee is required or asked to put their safety or life at jeopardy. When a person threatens an officer with a weapon the officer has every right and some say an obligation to neutralize the person without endangering them self or others. The risks are to high to leave anything up to chance.

[6L6]

Originally Posted by AndreF

Yes, this guy was a hard core terrorist, convicted of plotting to blow up the London Stock Exchange, and they let him out early ???, serving only 8 years of a 16 year sentence.
My thought is, if they release people like that after only serving half their time, they should at least give them 100 year sentences.
That way, he would have at least been too weak to wield the machete he used to slaughter those innocent victims.
A text book example of an avoidable tragedy. You have to be tough too sometimes to preserve civility.

I agree 100%. The Brits also let the guy out early who blew up that Pan Am 747 over Lockerbie, Scotland. They said he was dying and it was right to let him go home. He lived for another 4 YEARS!!!

I was on London Bridge with two of my grandchildren the day before this happened. We had just come down from the top of The Shard and were heading back to our hotel.

This terrorist got off WAY too easy with just a couple of bullets.