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  #16  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:33 PM
mchalebk mchalebk is offline
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A couple random responses...

1. 2012 would be a Peavey guitar.
2. Truss rods are not intended for adjusting action. They're for adjusting relief. If the guitar has the proper relief, action is adjusted at the nut and saddle (mostly saddle). If a CF guitar has reasonable relief, it doesn't need a truss rod, unless a guitarist has special relief requirements (unusual, but not unheard of).
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:25 AM
Alexander Coe Alexander Coe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchalebk View Post
2. Truss rods are not intended for adjusting action. They're for adjusting relief. If the guitar has the proper relief, action is adjusted at the nut and saddle (mostly saddle). If a CF guitar has reasonable relief, it doesn't need a truss rod, unless a guitarist has special relief requirements (unusual, but not unheard of).
Thanks for clarification. I know this and meant to ask: If the guitar fails and there is too much relief, I assume there's no way to service it and the only thing I'll be able to adjust is the bridge, right? I know it's not SUPPOSED to ever give in, but I'm a bit leery about it. What's the heaviest strings you can use? I'm afraid to have the guitar for a few years and then realize that the neck is slowly being pulled in and have to junk the guitar. I checked the relief when I was there, it was appropriate, but it's hard to believe it could never change!

I think I'll get the Cargo because my local(ish) store has one and I got to play it and liked it! I'll save the Emerald for in the future when I have some money to spend... as something to aspire for!
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:43 AM
penny penny is offline
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For me, the lack of truss rod on my Cargo just means one less thing to worry about! - no need to humidify, no need to tweak the truss rod, no need to worry about heat, etc -it's so liberating! I like mediums best on my Cargo, handles it just fine. I've had it since 2009, no structural problems at all and it's been banged around quite a bit. I got a good setup early on and the action and intonation are excellent.
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  #19  
Old 04-02-2013, 11:12 AM
unknownguitaris unknownguitaris is offline
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I cut this from a web site: "Simply put, guitar neck relief is a very slight cupping or concave shape of your guitar neck. It is this cupping that allows for the elliptical string vibration of a picked or strummed string to clear the tops of the frets at roughly the mid point of the neck, or halfway between a fretted note and the bridge." Thinking relief has nothing to do with action is false. If you stick with the dogma of how to set relief on an acoustic, then it is correct that it is all about the bridge and nut. More insight needs to be considered.

Depending on the amount of relief, action can be greatly affected. Of course, the worst combination is a high nut, high saddle, and incorrect relief. The nut and saddle give you the best gain in action, provided the relief is at first correct. Too much "bow" in the neck that cannot be compensated due to a broken truss rod, or a warped neck on the treble or bass side. This will will cause buzz too.

Shredders buy (electric) guitars with flatter radius necks and flatten out the relief. This will give you superb light touch action, with string buzz mostly unnoticeable with high gain distortion in amplification. On an acoustic guitar, the buzz is annoying, at least to me. I have set up an acoustic with very low action and had to limit picking hand dynamics to keep away from the buzz.

When I used to set up guitars for a living, many of my customers would simply buy more guitars! The store owner was happy.... of course. Depending on what you want to do with a guitar, options exist and there are always trade offs.... just like buying a boat!
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  #20  
Old 04-02-2013, 11:20 AM
unknownguitaris unknownguitaris is offline
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Oh, and the CF neck relief issue... think I need to putz with my Rainsong, which has a truss rod. To see if (which I'm sure can be done) it can be set up "flat".

I "eyeballed" the Emerald, I can see the relief for sure, but it appears to be correct for acoustic guitar set ups. If I wanted a "shredder's" acoustic, I'd get the truss rod for sure. Other than that application, my opinion is that truss rods in a CF is rendered mostly a moot point..... Changing to higher string tension and alternate tunings set aside though....

I'm certain, opinions on this topic will vary. Results based on experiences are always best though.... at least to those who have been there.
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  #21  
Old 04-02-2013, 11:57 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Coe View Post
Thanks for clarification. I know this and meant to ask: If the guitar fails and there is too much relief, I assume there's no way to service it and the only thing I'll be able to adjust is the bridge, right? I know it's not SUPPOSED to ever give in, but I'm a bit leery about it. What's the heaviest strings you can use? I'm afraid to have the guitar for a few years and then realize that the neck is slowly being pulled in and have to junk the guitar. I checked the relief when I was there, it was appropriate, but it's hard to believe it could never change!

I think I'll get the Cargo because my local(ish) store has one and I got to play it and liked it! I'll save the Emerald for in the future when I have some money to spend... as something to aspire for!
I think that is a good call, I just got finished playing a Peavey Cargo in my local store. Really great big guitar sound. To answer your question the neck will never change. That's the beauty of carbon if you like it, your good. The one I played I would have lower the saddle a bit. I have three Rainsongs I tweeked the truss rod cause I could, was not necessary. My Emerald had average relief on both neck no truss rod got to the string height I wanted with no issues. Hollow light necks awesome. To me if you play it and you like it: your good. They are all very well made guitars!
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  #22  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:12 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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The next thing to figure out is how to turn all this CF into diamonds. I think exerting tremendous pressure might do the trick...eventually. Anyway, it would be a good way to recycle the ones we decide we don't want anymore.

...and a few more random answers:

1. No
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
5. Yes
6. Sometimes
7. Absolutely not
8. Not with mine you don't
9. Never
10 Of course...

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  #23  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:45 PM
Alexander Coe Alexander Coe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
...and a few more random answers:

6. Sometimes
This one worries me. Why only sometimes?
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  #24  
Old 04-03-2013, 06:48 AM
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kramster kramster is offline
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and of course

11. I don't know...ask your mother
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2013, 06:04 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Coe View Post
This one worries me. Why only sometimes?
Sometimes...well, because not always...but more than you might think.
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2013, 07:46 PM
Alexander Coe Alexander Coe is offline
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OK I'm re-thinking this... an answer here would be very helpful!

From these two sites:
Emerald X7-OS: http://www.emeraldguitars.com/produc...s/x7-os/specs/
Cargo: http://www.laguitarsales.com/pages/4...rgo_RT_986.htm
it looks like the guitars are almost the same size. I had just assumed that the Emerald was slightly longer because of the scale length but according to these specs it's actually shorter? I'd like to confirm this. I liked the Cargo a lot because I could curl around it, but if the Emerald feels much the same I'd reconsider! The Emerald doesn't have the bevels in the back like the Cargo does, does it?

Thanks in advance!

Edit: Found a great video here, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_uSve649wc

Last edited by Alexander Coe; 04-03-2013 at 07:54 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-03-2013, 08:55 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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I have never played the X7OS, so I can't comment on it. I have the Cargo and really like it. However, I still think you need to play both to make an informed decision with regard to your specific body build, what you want to hear in a guitar, and what your specific needs are.

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  #28  
Old 04-04-2013, 02:53 AM
ac ac is offline
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The X7-OS is much lighter and little shorter than the Cargo and has a longer scale length (24"). It was the right combination for me.

The sounds of the two guitars are different. Cargo, more bass but quieter. Emerald, brighter but louder. There are side by side comparison videos out there.

As to bevels, I know the X7-OS is beveled in 3 areas: For right forearm, for left hand play where the neck joins the body, and a bevel at the edge where the guitar rests on your leg.
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2013, 07:57 AM
Steve Christens Steve Christens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac View Post
The X7-OS is much lighter and little shorter than the Cargo and has a longer scale length (24"). It was the right combination for me.

The sounds of the two guitars are different. Cargo, more bass but quieter. Emerald, brighter but louder. There are side by side comparison videos out there.

As to bevels, I know the X7-OS is beveled in 3 areas: For right forearm, for left hand play where the neck joins the body, and a bevel at the edge where the guitar rests on your leg.

This is a great to-the-point summary. I own an Emerald X7-OS, and have played a number of Cargos. You really can't go wrong with either, as they are both great sounding small body guitars. The big difference is scale length. I always felt cramped on the Cargo neck, which is why I held off buying one, and eventually bought the 24" scale length X7. If you interests lean toward a Cargo you really have to be sure you like something with that scale length first.
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:52 PM
tdq tdq is offline
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When at Macnichols in Salt Lake last year I did a whip around the walls, and so had an opportunity to play a large sample of all CF guitars on offer; I prefer the CA sound over the Emeralds and Rainsongs (I have a GX) but I found the scale length on the Cargo too small, which surprised me, as I have various string instruments at home of various sizes and it doesn't bother me on them. Something about the cargo felt cramped, to me.
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