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  #16  
Old 08-30-2021, 07:25 PM
macmanmatty macmanmatty is offline
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Only a fool is going steal your song outright . They will most likely take your idea and possibly parts of the melody or lyrics and then run with it. But, there more than likely not going steal your song 100%. A pro songwriter (AKA anyone who could make any kind of profit from your song) has everything to lose and nothing gain by doing this. Once they've taken and made something sort of similar to it any copyright you have doesn't really matter at that point it's up the judge and jury to decide.
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Old 08-31-2021, 02:01 AM
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  #18  
Old 09-15-2021, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail View Post
does anyone know where this needs to be done in the eu?
or can i sinply copyright in the us as well as european citizen?
.....good point I was about to bring up. The world is a big place. Most countries have their own intellectual property protection system. Sadly it's the US that bullies their powers over the internet. For example, I've never heard of Mexico's Intellectual Property office forcing a takedown notice on youtube. And what would be the point of copyrighting with the US if someone lives in Iran, or Brasil , for example. In a different legal system, the US copyright would have far less legal status, or none at all, if it was in a country not aligned with their copyright treaty cartel. Of course, this is the reason there is piracy in most of the world, even in the US using vpn's. I've only tried to copyright once, although I have a patent. Actually more than one, but only one in the public domain. Even inventors loose access to their public patents because most were made inside systems sufficiently powerful enough ie with resources and legal firms to get them approved, even if the authors have royalty rights. The author is the bottom of the food chain, always. In any patent, you can always tell the real inventor by their name appearing last on the list. My one attempt to copyright 10 songs, I investigated online to my chagrin, that one could use the cheapest copyright ( about $35 at the time) to do up to 10songs if they were presented as one file, like for example an opera. I was mistaken and it was rejected, with them telling me I had to use the more expensive (around $65) type. I haven't tried to redo but probably will in the future. I was told that since I had filed the original copyright claim, the works once copyrighted would be protected from the original date. That was about two years ago. I heard they were going to increase the number of songs for the minimum copyright to 20 but I don't think that's happened. Not 100% sure. I removed my music from soundcloud until it's copyrighted. Just haven't been animated enough to redo. But returning to the world at large. I know that other countries, cultures and languages usurp the US/British music and make it their own. And they don't pay royalties. If a country is not within their intellectual property cartel, there's little reason to deal with the US copyright office, especially if the work isn't in english. While one is living inside the US it feels ubiquitous, in the real world, it's anything but. My two cents from living outside for 35 years.
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2021, 03:18 PM
Big Band Guitar Big Band Guitar is offline
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Lots of real answers here.

https://www.paulrapp.com/articles.php
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2021, 05:48 PM
kurth kurth is offline
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Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar View Post
Lots of real answers here.

https://www.paulrapp.com/articles.php
I only went directly to #12 copyright myths, where he says "Registration only costs $30.00, and one application (and one fee) can usually cover a collection or group of works." ..which is not true, or confusing at best. This I found out the hard way. There's at least two tiers and the first tier, at the cheaper rate of around $35 does not allow for collections of material. Now, since this states it was written in the early 2000's , and since when I did my application I discovered similarly false information, maybe at that time, collections were permitted. But now to register 10 songs, it costs 65-70 approx. The cheaper application is only valid for one piece.
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  #21  
Old 09-17-2021, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurth View Post
.....good point I was about to bring up. The world is a big place. Most countries have their own intellectual property protection system. Sadly it's the US that bullies their powers over the internet. For example, I've never heard of Mexico's Intellectual Property office forcing a takedown notice on youtube.
"Sadly it's the US that bullies their powers over the internet" Interesting ,, I am curious can you provide evidence of an instance of this proclaimed US "bullying" ??? I ask simply because you have also never heard of the US Copyright Office forcing a take down on youtube either .
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  #22  
Old 09-17-2021, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail View Post
does anyone know where this needs to be done in the eu?
or can i sinply copyright in the us as well as european citizen?
I imagine it can be done with your specific countries Copyright protection office
There are some Eu wide agreements as well as some international agreements like the Burne agreement and some others BUT then tend to simply try to organize what is covered they are not multilateral registration agreements.

And yes you can also register with the US Copyright Office

https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap...eign-works.pdf
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  #23  
Old 09-17-2021, 03:08 PM
kurth kurth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
"Sadly it's the US that bullies their powers over the internet" Interesting ,, I am curious can you provide evidence of an instance of this proclaimed US "bullying" ??? I ask simply because you have also never heard of the US Copyright Office forcing a take down on youtube either .
I never said it was specifically and only the US Copyright Office that does takedowns...but they guided the method and set the rules by interpreting the dmca .... https://www.copyright.gov/policy/section512/
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2021, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kurth View Post
I never said it was specifically and only the US Copyright Office that does takedowns...but they guided the method and set the rules by interpreting the dmca .... https://www.copyright.gov/policy/section512/
No but you definitely implied that the US Copyright Office forces take downs

Quote:
Sadly it's the US that bullies their powers over the internet. For example, I've never heard of Mexico's Intellectual Property office forcing a takedown notice on youtube.
The implication of which is completely mistaken...

Lets see if I can clarify ::: The US Copyright Office does NOT "force YouTube takedowns" or issue take down notifications or any other enforcement of Copyright law . The US Copyright Office is not an enforcement entity PERIOD.

Any takedowns are a result of either YouTubes automated system detecting possible infringement , or the copyright holders or their assigns claiming infringement and requesting a takedown.... It has nothing to do with the Copyright Office

No the link is not remotely evidence of "bullying" by the US, (which is what I asked you to provide )
because the Copyright Office is not involved in "guiding the method or setting the rules" That is a function of legislation and statue and it is the Court system that "interprets the statues not the Copyright Office.

The provided link is about a study done By the Copyright Office of how section 512 (limitations on liability and the requisite conditions ) is working 20 years after the DMCA was written . The Copyright Office solicited public comment and did an analysis of how the 1998 DMCA applied to the current internet situation, with some recommendations for possible changes.

Quote from the link ::
The Office does not recommend any wholesale changes to section 512, but instead identifies certain areas where Congress may wish to fine-tune section 512’s current operation in order to better balance the rights and responsibilities of online service providers and rightsholders in the creative industries.

Again The above suggestions ,,, is arguably not really "guiding"...... and definitely NOT "setting the rules" and certainly not evidence of US bullying the internet ,,,particular since the DMCA only applies to internet service providers based in the US
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Last edited by KevWind; 09-18-2021 at 03:12 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2021, 09:58 PM
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Anybody can request a takedown. To enforce it against complaint is another story, which requires proof. And yes, to 'suggest' is to guide. Who do you think the congress listens to when writing their laws like the dmca. And the US can claim jurisdiction in countries if there's any connection, no matter how slight, directly or indirectly, or even thru third parties such as foreign isp's that have any connection with the US, by marketing, or even thru third party customer services of any kind, then they are under the supposed directorate of the dmca. There's less than 10 countries in the world where the dmca is not recognized and heavily enforced. You can use whatever adjective you like to describe it. I used what I consider the appropriate descriptive term. It's the same deal with world banking/ cheers/k
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  #26  
Old 09-19-2021, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurth View Post
Anybody can request a takedown.
Except of course the US Copyright Office is not one of those anybodies BECAUSE again The US Copyright Office does not request takedowns (or Force takedown as you put it ) Period... at all .... which makes your implication totally false .

Quote:
To enforce it against complaint is another story, which requires proof.
Absolutely correct.. But in the case of Youtube videos it is Youtube who decides if the Video is subject to takedown or not (they obviously follow the criteria in the DMCA ) But it is YouTube that makes the decision ,,, NOT the Copyright Office.
And beyond internet streaming service etc. In the larger context in the US it is the Courts , who ultimately "enforce" copyright infringement law,,, NOT the US Copyright Office

Quote:
And yes, to 'suggest' is to guide. Who do you think the congress listens to when writing their laws like the dmca.
Well in reality I am not sure congress listens to anybody but it's loudest constituents and lobbyists
But Ok if you think observation and suggestion is "guiding" fine .... But again guiding is not jurisdiction or enforcement

Quote:
And the US can claim jurisdiction in countries if there's any connection, no matter how slight, directly or indirectly, or even thru third parties such as foreign isp's that have any connection with the US, by marketing, or even thru third party customer services of any kind, then they are under the supposed directorate of the dmca.
Wrong again the US cannot "claim Jurisdiction" anywhere but the US... regardless of connections.... Period.....
Just exactly what department or entity in the US,,, do you think uses the DMCA to claim jurisdiction in, or become directorial in, other countries ( beside the obvious fact the US can claim absolutely no jurisdiction and thus cannot direct any other foreign country) The US can determine if there is any infringement issues taking place in the US but can only enforce that portion or connection taking place in the US.

I suppose the US could try to influence domestic companies to not associate or do business with a foreign ISP that was violating the DMCA or the Burne or Buenos conventions as well as several other international copyright protection treaties. And the US could try to influence foreign countries to crack down on violations ..... But honestly I think you are tilting at windmills, can you supply any evidence of such claiming of jurisdiction ?????

While I would agree the US can and does certainly try to influence other countries in lots of ways And I would agree sometimes tries to influence beyond what it should be doing,, but that is another discussion and one that is not allowed on AGF But "influence" is not "jurisdiction"...... period
And in terms of copyright enforcement I seriously doubt it. Again can you supply any evidence of your allegations said claiming of jurisdiction of the US and using the DMCA to direct copyright enforcement in foreign countries ????????


Quote:
There's less than 10 countries in the world where the dmca is not recognized and heavily enforced.
That is specious and false . The DMCA is US statute (Period) an can only be enforced in the US .. While other countries may have similar statutes , and or may have signed on to a number of international treaties that may have many similar aspects to the DMCA ,,, and other countries may even recognize and may even enforce aspects the DMCA... but that is those countries taking those enforcement steps.... Because again there is no "enforcement" of the DMCA buy the US, in any country, except the US ... Period .. that is just the facts and the reality of the situation ......

And you have it backwards, or the Cart before the Horse . As noted most Countries are signatories to the Burn and Buenos Aires and several other copyright treaties .. Of which the DMCA often shares significant amounts of similar wording and criteria And while the US could possible try to influence foreign signatories to uphold those treaties IT HAS NO JURISDICTION in any other Country ....period...
But lets be realistic ,, why would the US even bother ?????? the vast majority of streaming is by companies in the US and thus the vast majority of revenue is generated in the US and the US does have Jurisdiction to enforce the DMCA in the US ......


Quote:
You can use whatever adjective you like to describe it. I used what I consider the appropriate descriptive term. It's the same deal with world banking/ cheers/k
Not a matter of simply choosing a different adjective. I try to use words that correctly and accurately describe the actual facts and not inject words that are not actually accurate or "appropriate" into this already very complex and often misunderstood subject......

I get it you don't like what ever real or imagined influence you think the US may actually have over internet streaming And it certainly could wield influence ..... BUT that is speculation not fact ...
And posting false statements of claim of jurisdiction or enforcement , does not bolster that totally speculative and subjective opinion
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  #27  
Old 09-19-2021, 10:18 AM
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https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/0...ents-worldwide
""Nonetheless, the USTR, which influences the United States' positions at WIPO and negotiates for the country in international trade agreements, still pushes for unbalanced enforcement provisions that in practice violate users’ rights to access, share, and create digital content. These policies are often created in secret proceedings that uphold the interests of a few aging, powerful industries at the costly expense of economic, cultural, and technological progress. ""

To fully develop my position would require us to discuss things most likely prohibited on the forum. So let's just agree to disagree.
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  #28  
Old 09-19-2021, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurth View Post
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/0...ents-worldwide
""Nonetheless, the USTR, which influences the United States' positions at WIPO and negotiates for the country in international trade agreements, still pushes for unbalanced enforcement provisions that in practice violate users’ rights to access, share, and create digital content. These policies are often created in secret proceedings that uphold the interests of a few aging, powerful industries at the costly expense of economic, cultural, and technological progress. ""

To fully develop my position would require us to discuss things most likely prohibited on the forum. So let's just agree to disagree.
Ah yes the EFF the darling of big silicon valley interests

"Yasha Levine, writing in 2018 for The Baffler magazine, described the EFF as astroturf created and funded by Silicon Valley, stating they do not actually defend rights for the users of Internet platforms, instead defending large Internet companies (which are, according to him, EFF's biggest benefactors) by lobbying for said companies' interests and diverting attention from their business practices (especially regarding copyright and privacy) to government practices regarding privacy and censorship, as well as actually acting in ways that actively harm Internet users"

Ya you are right about one thing ---guess we better just agree to disagree ..Cheers
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  #29  
Old 10-04-2021, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
Nor does a formal copyright, in many cases. (hence the need for expensive lawyers, courtrooms, and lawyers!) We all know of cases where formal copyrights were over-ridden by a small guy with enough documentation to convince a judge otherwise. But I agree, a filing with clerk of courts only date-stamps and archives your work. But that IS an important component of legal ownership. Just not all of it.

(I'm not a lawyer, but had a lengthy and expensive session with a patent attorney, including songwriting, as he himself is an amateur writer)
Interesting. So what did your patent attorney suggest you do to protect your songs?
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  #30  
Old 10-06-2021, 02:48 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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In my case, I ended up going the US Copywrite route... paid a small fee for the entire collection of songs on the CD I put out ($35?). This was 20+ years ago, though, and as we all know, things change!

The caveat on the "collection" is that, say if someone wanted to record one of the songs in that collection, I would then copywrite THAT song individually, and license it to them in that manner. If I granted them the approval for the collection, well then they'd be able to use any or all of the songs without further approval (or licensing fees!) from me.

One thing I will say to Cecil is that, when I was younger I was VERY concerned about protecting "my" songs... so much so that I turned down an opportunity to be "remote" staff writer for A&M records, back in 1969... I just couldn't let the songs go...

Now? Heck, one reason I write the songs is for others to hear them and hopefully be touched by them. I'm a lot less concerned about getting ripped off... I'll deal with that when it and if it actually happens...
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