What key is my new song in?

[sc morris]

Need help here. I wrote a new song last week and need to know what key it's in. A guy I play with sometimes wants to learn it to jam along on harmonica, so I need to know what key I'm in.

I play it in G, with the capo on VI. (I know it's not really in G, since the capo is on.....get what I'm saying?)

thanks....

[Bob Womack]

Sounds like C#.

[sc morris]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Sounds like C#.

Thanks... I don't think I'm ever going to understand how to properly transpose using a capo. I've tried to understand it, but I just don't get it. thanks...

[crowdedstr]

Originally Posted by sc morris

Thanks... I don't think I'm ever going to understand how to properly transpose using a capo. I've tried to understand it, but I just don't get it. thanks...

this may not work for every single application, but wouldn't an easy way be to just add 1/2 step for every fret that you're capo'd up?

so you're starting off in "G"...

no capo = G
1st fret = G#
2nd fret = A
3rd fret = A#
4th fret = B
5th fret = C
6th fret = C#

[sc morris]

Originally Posted by crowdedstr

this may not work for every single application, but wouldn't an easy way be to just add 1/2 step for every fret that you're capo'd up?

so you're starting off in "G"...

no capo = G
1st fret = G#
2nd fret = A
3rd fret = A#
4th fret = B
5th fret = C
6th fret = C#

.............. ....................

[LarryH in Texas]

What crowdedstr said makes sense to me.

When you say you're playing it in G but capo'd up, you mean that you're using the chord shapes for G, C and D chords (and maybe Em), right?

So with no capo, you really are playing in the key of G.

With your capo on the first fret, your G-shape chord is really playing a G# chord.
With your capo on the second fret, your G-shape chord is really playing an A chord.
With your capo on the third fret, your G-shape chord is really playing a Bb (or A#) chord.
. . . .
With your capo on the sixth fret, your G-shape chord is really playing a C# (or Db) chord.

Any better, or still clear as mud?

[sc morris]

Originally Posted by LarryH in Texas

What crowdedstr said makes sense to me.

When you say you're playing it in G but capo'd up, you mean that you're using the chord shapes for G, C and D chords (and maybe Em), right?

So with no capo, you really are playing in the key of G.

With your capo on the first fret, your G-shape chord is really playing a G# chord.
With your capo on the second fret, your G-shape chord is really playing an A chord.
With your capo on the third fret, your G-shape chord is really playing a Bb (or A#) chord.
. . . .
With your capo on the sixth fret, your G-shape chord is really playing a C# (or Db) chord.

Any better, or still clear as mud?

Yes....

It sorta makes sense in this instance, but I my confusion would start all over again if it was in E or A or some other key.

[LarryH in Texas]

OK, here's your "gouge", starting on E, just because (open first or sixth string, if you must know why I picked it).

E, F, F#(Gb), G, G#(Ab), A, A#(Bb), B, C, C#(Db), D, D#(Eb), E, F, F#(Gb), G, G#(Ab), A, A#(Bb), B, C, C#(Db), D, D#(Eb), E

Put a 0 (zero) under the key corresponding to the shapes you're using. Let's say you're playing the chord shapes corresponding to the key of E. Then put the ascending list of integers under the remaining letters until you get to the fret you capo'd. The letter above that number is the key you're "really" in.

[sc morris]

Originally Posted by LarryH in Texas

OK, here's your "gouge", starting on E, just because (open first or sixth string, if you must know why I picked it).

E, F, F#(Gb), G, G#(Ab), A, A#(Bb), B, C, C#(Db), D, D#(Eb), E, F, F#(Gb), G, G#(Ab), A, A#(Bb), B, C, C#(Db), D, D#(Eb), E

Put a 0 (zero) under the key corresponding to the shapes you're using. Let's say you're playing the chord shapes corresponding to the key of E. Then put the ascending list of integers under the remaining letters until you get to the fret you capo'd. The letter above that number is the key you're "really" in.

I understand the notes on the fretboard, but that other stuff just makes my head spin. It honestly makes no sense to me at all. The last part of your post may as well be written in Hebrew.

[LarryH in Texas]

Write it down on a piece of paper and put the numbers underneath. I didn't type it out like that because I knew the darn proportional font would skew the alignment of the letters and numbers.

I THINK that once you write it down and work out a couple of examples, the "AHA!" light will come on.

If the phrase "ascending list of integers" throws you, just think 0,1,2,3,4,5 ....

Theory is your friend, not your enemy.

[sc morris]

Originally Posted by LarryH in Texas

Write it down on a piece of paper and put the numbers underneath. I didn't type it out like that because I knew the darn proportional font would skew the alignment of the letters and numbers.

I THINK that once you write it down and work out a couple of examples, the "AHA!" light will come on.

If the phrase "ascending list of integers" throws you, just think 0,1,2,3,4,5 ....

Theory is your friend, not your enemy.

OH....Ok, I think I get it now. Now that you say write it down! I could memorize it by key that way. Or it would at least help me figure out some of it. Thanks man, that helps!

Theory....my friend? ok...if you say so....

[KMHaynes]

Alright SC, lets see if I can explain it very simply.

There are only 12 different musical notes. You say you know what the notes are on the guitar fretboard, so I'll start with E string since there are 2 E strings on the guitars. On the E string, the 12 notes are: E, F, F#, G, G# A, B, B#, C, C#, D, D#. (The 12th fret is the E note that is one Octave above the open E string, right?!)

Now if you play a E chord, but you put a capo on the 1st fret and play the same E chord, you are now playing playing in the key of F. Just like if you fret an open E string at the first fret, you are playing a F note, if you capo the guitar at the first fret and play an "E" shaped chord, you are actually playing in the key of F. Right??

So if the song you are playing starts with a C chord (in the key of C), and you put the capo on the 4th fret, then using the 12 notes in their order above, you would be playing in the key of E (open=C, fret 1=C#, fret 2=D, fret 3=D#, fret 4=E).

Remember your 12 notes, then find the note you are starting in, then count up the same number as the where you are putting on the capo, and that is what Key you are now playing in.

Hope this helps.

[sc morris]

Originally Posted by KMHaynes

Alright SC, lets see if I can explain it very simply.

There are only 12 different musical notes. You say you know what the notes are on the guitar fretboard, so I'll start with E string since there are 2 E strings on the guitars. On the E string, the 12 notes are: E, F, F#, G, G# A, B, B#, C, C#, D, D#. (The 12th fret is the E note that is one Octave above the open E string, right?!)

Now if you play a E chord, but you put a capo on the 1st fret and play the same E chord, you are now playing playing in the key of F. Just like if you fret an open E string at the first fret, you are playing a F note, if you capo the guitar at the first fret and play an "E" shaped chord, you are actually playing in the key of F. Right??

So if the song you are playing starts with a C chord (in the key of C), and you put the capo on the 4th fret, then using the 12 notes in their order above, you would be playing in the key of E (open=C, fret 1=C#, fret 2=D, fret 3=D#, fret 4=E).

Remember your 12 notes, then find the note you are starting in, then count up the same number as the where you are putting on the capo, and that is what Key you are now playing in.

Hope this helps.

thanks and that does make sense. I'm going to print this out and look it over.

[gteague]

Originally Posted by sc morris

thanks and that does make sense. I'm going to print this out and look it over.

hey sc. i know music theory from having played the violin decades ago, but sometimes even i get confused when trying to transpose. i never had to do that on the fiddle--it doesn't play nice with a capo! [g]

after auditioning capos and trying out most that were mentioned in the long thread we had on the subject, i ended up with a couple of the shubb models, the original and the deluxe. i really like them both.

but what i'm getting to is that shubb makes a little slide-rule type device which all you have to do is line up the original chord and the capo fret in separate windows and it reads the new chord right out directly. it has another transposition aid on the back. it is very compact--about the same size and thickness as a credit card.

i'm at work now and i'll have to look at it and give you the details when i get home if you're interested. i'm not sure if i got it from maury's music or musicians friend. i think it was like $7.95 or so.

here's a link to a picture and which should give you enough information to find one. i think it'd really help.

http://www.andysfronthall.com/accessor.html#transpose

good luck,

/guy

[BR-183Bob]

Actually, yes it does work in every case. You just have to keep in mind that there is a whole step (or two half steps) between each note except between B & C and E & F which are only half steps. So in this case:
Open=G;
fret 1=G# (Ab)
Fret 2=A
Fret 3=A# (Bb)
Fret 4=B
Fret 5=C
Fret 6=C# (Db)

Whether you call it a sharp of the key below or a flat of the key above is a part of music theory that escapes me and, really, I don't much care about because it seems to be pretty trivial.

Bob
Spearfish, SD