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#1
06-20-2018, 12:24 PM
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I'd like your opinion
A while ago a friend called me asking me my opinion on a few guitars. He wanted to buy a new really special guitar, and was leaning toward a very well respected boutique small shop builder. Had to get it online, but I told him he's pretty much like anything in that rarefied price point.
Well, he bought the guitar, was absolutely thrilled, signed up for some lessons and was stoked. About a month later, he noticed a dead note. Half the length of decay from every other. He called the dealer about the problem. Dealer said, after three days, not my problem. Talk to the manufacturer. Manufacturer said send us the guitar, we want you to be happy. We can fix it. Manufacturer said, yes, we see you have a problem. The note is certainly what you say it is. Only had this happen two or three times in all our long history. Maybe we can add a brace that will solve the problem. My friend thought about this over a weekend, and came to the conclusion any alteration of the guitar would bug him forever, respectfully stated this to the manufacturer who stated that they understood his position, wanted him to be happy, and would build him a new guitar any way he wanted it. If he wanted more inlay, he'd have to pay the difference. But the original guitar did after all have a problem. Today he got an e mail from the manufacturer, stating that the dealer wouldn't cooperate with a refund, so they couldn't build him a new guitar. They were sending his guitar back to him. They were so sorry. They want him to be happy. Perhaps he could trade his guitar in on another, but don't use the same dealer. In other words, take the financial hit, pawn his defective guitar off on another unsuspecting consumer. Or sell it, and then they would build him anything he wanted. They, after all, want him to be happy. This is so disappointing to me both from a dealer's standpoint, but ultimately the manufacturer's failure. The manufacturer finally stated they did not want to alter the guitar for fear of making it worse, but had no problem with a defective product being out in the world. I've tried to state the facts as I know them. I have all this second hand from a friend whom I trust. I have left out names as it is for he to decide. It is he who has the e mail messages. As far as he trying to pawn this off on an unsuspecting buyer, he recently sold a Collings he dinged when it was brand new. Had the ding repaired so as to be undetectable. He disclosed it to the buyer anyway. Enough blame to go around? Should he name names? We are certainly talking twice the cost of any guitar I own.
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2007 Martin D 35 Custom 1970 Guild D 35 1965 Epiphone Texan 2011 Santa Cruz D P/W Pono OP 30 D parlor Pono OP12-30 Pono MT uke Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic Fluke tenor ukulele Boatload of home rolled telecasters "Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa 
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#2
06-20-2018, 12:55 PM
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Br1ck:
When you say your friend wanted to buy a new guitar do you mean that the defective guitar was new and not used? If it is new, I assume it is covered by a manufacturer's lifetime warranty for the original owner like Collings and Huss & Dalton provide. I'm guessing that's the industry standard. It's hard to imagine a warranty response of "maybe we can add a brace to solve the problem." I would expect the manufacturer to just solve the problem--even if that meant the only certain way was to build a new guitar. Certainly not comfortable to hear that response from any of the "boutique" shops.
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#3
06-20-2018, 01:28 PM
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First, I'm a little surprised at a dealer of higher end boutique guitars saying that after 3 days it's not their problem.. that's screwing their customer, not good for business, and a little publicity about the situation might encourage them to alter their policy...
But still...IF the guitar was new, with a decent warranty, it seems to me that the builder is weaseling out of eating the cost of them putting a dud guitar on the market, and blaming the dealer... The buyer deserves a new, defect free guitar for his money...
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"Music is much too important to be left to professionals." Last edited by Denny B; 06-20-2018 at 01:36 PM.
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#4
06-20-2018, 01:43 PM
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Just an old drum playing guitarist now.
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#5
06-20-2018, 01:46 PM
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Why is the builder suggesting going through the dealer and putting the onus on him, then turning around and suggesting using another dealer? What kind of a relationship is that? If I were that dealer I would never sell another guitar for that builder again. I don't know who the builder of this guitar is obviously. Based solely on the information you have provided here, I would never buy a guitar from them or their dealer. Good luck with what sounds like a raw deal. P.S. Naming names is a dubious choice. Remember, it's your friend's word against the dealer and the builder.
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Nothing bothers me unless I let it. Martin D18 Gibson J45 Gibson J15 Fender Copperburst Telecaster Squier CV 50 Stratocaster Squier CV 50 Telecaster Last edited by rokdog49; 06-20-2018 at 01:56 PM.
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#6
06-20-2018, 01:51 PM
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something isn't adding up here.
my only conclusion is that this guitar *had* to be bought second-hand, as pointed out, or else it would be covered. I hate to jump to conclusions, but I will also +1 that I don't ever want to do business with a "Boutique" dealer who says "after 3 days not my problem". I'm usually a person who takes everything with a grain of salt, but if this is a reputable or well known shop or dealer, I'd like to know who it is, even if PM if necessary. I don't like that at all. This whole situation smells just.. bad. Need more details, first and foremost. Scott
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2003 Washburn WD44S | Sitka/Hawaiian koa 2018 Gibson J-45 Vintage | Torrefied Adi/Mahogany 2015 Gibson Wildwood AJ New Vintage | Adi/EIR Fishman | Loudbox Mini | Primetone 1.0mm "what is the universe? the universe is a symphony of vibrating strings.." -michio kaku
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#7
06-20-2018, 02:20 PM
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I don't know how things work in the US but, in the UK, under the the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the dealer must give a full refund on faulty goods, or offer repair or replacement, for a period of six months from the date of the sale. If the fault shows up more than six months after the date of sale, you can still ask for a refund, repair or replacement, but the dealer may deduct an amount for the use already made of the goods.
It's quite clear under our laws - the consumer's contract is with the dealer, not the manufacturer (although manufacturers routinely guarantee their products). Do you have a similar organisation to our Citizens' Advice Bureaux, where you can get advice about your rights on this kind of issue?
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM)
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#8
06-20-2018, 02:20 PM
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Ten years ago, or my 60th I ordered a slightly customised version of a standard model from a small shop boutique maker.
It arrived in time for collection on my birthday so we drove to collect it. Straight out of the case I sensed something wrong with it, but assuming that such an expensive instrument could not be faulty. I paid the balance and took it home. It turned out after many lengthy trips back and forth to the dealer (who was also the only dealer in the UK who dealt with them, I discovered from a very good British luthier that it had been constructed too lightly to be played with a pick as the top was unstable and that the finish was faulty as it was unreasonably soft. The builders simply refused to discuss the matter and referred me back to the dealer. By the time that I decided that I didn't want to continue with the instrument it had sustained many marks from his attempts to set it up and simply from finger marks and fingernails etc. The guitar was a Roy Smeck style deep body 12 fret jumbo. He offered me a much cheaper guitar as compensation, and I lost about £2.5-£3k on it. The makers have already been mentioned in this thread and it isn't Collings. I would never have that brand in my house again.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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#9
06-20-2018, 02:23 PM
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Rest assured, this guitar was purchased new, from one of the manufacturer's authorized dealers. My friend has a very clear e mail correspondence. The manufacturer is a very well respected, very well established maker, which just makes it all the more distressing.
My friend would still welcome and cherish owning this brand. In fact, when told he would get a refund from the dealer, he bought an even more expensive version of his original guitar, to the tune of five figures. Yes, five figures. He had to send it back due to the deal he was told would happen fell through. That dealer understood and acted like anyone with a reputation to protect would. And yes, all your thoughts regarding that there had to be something else going on make sense to me too. That is why I am incredulous as to the situation, and why I still hope there is time to make this right. The court of public opinion is a lousy way to try to pressure anyone into doing the right thing. After counsilling my friend to be patient and responsible in his dealings, the abrupt about face is all the more distressing. The fact the owner comes off as a very likeable guy just compounds the problem, but the fact is you either stand behind your product or you don't. Maybe he'd like to join in and give his side of the story. That he has no problem with this guitar being out in the world is also a problem for me. But in the end, as much as we would like to think all warm and fuzzy about the things we love, it in the end is just a business. They build guitars for a profit. Sad but true.
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2007 Martin D 35 Custom 1970 Guild D 35 1965 Epiphone Texan 2011 Santa Cruz D P/W Pono OP 30 D parlor Pono OP12-30 Pono MT uke Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic Fluke tenor ukulele Boatload of home rolled telecasters "Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa
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#10
06-20-2018, 02:50 PM
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Keep the comments coming, but I'm going to self sensor my comments because I'm too close to revealing who's who, already coming close to comments that would point to the party mentioned. If I'm not willing to tell someone something to their face, better to not comment at all. That is for the agrieved party to do if he so wishes and it comes to that.
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2007 Martin D 35 Custom 1970 Guild D 35 1965 Epiphone Texan 2011 Santa Cruz D P/W Pono OP 30 D parlor Pono OP12-30 Pono MT uke Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic Fluke tenor ukulele Boatload of home rolled telecasters "Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa Last edited by Kerbie; 06-21-2018 at 01:40 AM. Reason: Rule #1
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#11
06-20-2018, 02:54 PM
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Brick, what I do is do a little research and send a registered letter, with signature required, to the president or CEO of the company. If it's a big company, send it to SEVERAL of the big-wigs.
A couple tips on the letter: 1) Take all the emotion out of it and write the letter very matter-of-factly, chapter and verse, describe the series of events. 2) Write the letter as professionally as possible on computer, no typos, fragments, misspelling (esp of their names!), incorrect margins, incorrect business letter format, etc. If you have letterhead stationery, use that. 3) Sign the letter "Respectfully" or
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#12
06-20-2018, 02:58 PM
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My Opinion only
IMHO, this is your friend's problem at this point. He accepted the guitar from the dealer & it's been over a month. And therefore, he is now responsible. This may sound harsh, and I know it's not his fault. This is a terrible situation for anyone to be in, but it is what it is. That's the reality.
That said, your friend should definitely push the issue with the dealer. The dealer is responsible; first for accepting the guitar from the builder that way, and second for selling it on (whether they knew or not). Most dealer's have some sort of return policy that they should honor. Even if they don't have a written policy, they should offer a full refund to your friend for this issue, if he is not 100% satisfied. Your friend needs to stand in front of whomever is in charge there and absolutely insist on it! He may not get what he deserves, but he should try. If the dealer accepts the return, they can then work it out with the builder. They have the only real leverage with the builder to 'make it right'. This is again their responsibility as a dealer. All that said, if I was your friend I would let the builder fix it for me. Whatever they do is not going to substantially alter the guitar, it'll likely take just a little tweaking. I would simply consider this as part of the build process. Sometimes things get missed, initially. Let 'em fix it & go from there. Hope this helps.
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#13
06-20-2018, 03:26 PM
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As a public service message, I'd be broadcasting the dealer and maker identities globally. This simply isn't right in a commercial and legal way and I think the dealer needs to accept the fact that he is not at liberty to sell defective merchandise by law, whether he's aware of defects or not. This is a case of Lemon Law.
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#14
06-20-2018, 03:29 PM
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Amen. Agree 100%.
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#15
06-20-2018, 03:32 PM
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