Binding Replacement?

[mikelhenry]

I have a mid-70s Gibson Gospel that I purchased new with the not-so-hot Gibson warranty of the time that covers materials only.

For a few years the binding on the back has started to develop a dimpled texture in spots and the clear finish near those spots has become discolored.

I didn't worry about it because all was holding together and the discoloration, just a nuisance. Now, the binding is beginning to fall out in small pieces in those areas.

I have seen other Gibson Gospels from that era that had 1-2 inch pieces of binding missing and always thought the guitars had been abused, but now I think they probably suffered the same malady as my own.

Is it possible to replace the binding? Any idea on the cost?

Thanks for your input.

[mirwa]

Yes, it is possible to replace the binding.

I would recommend asking around, it is not a job for the faint of heart.

Cost to replace the binding can vary dramatically. Someone may be able to do it for as low as $200, others may charge a lot more.

I charge a lot more.

Steve

[murrmac123]

For the benefit of the OP, mirwa is in Australia, although he doesn't indicate this on his profile.

$200 AU = $148 USD.

[B. Howard]

I do a few of these a year. The price I charge reflects the amount of labor the job took. Sometimes the bindings almost fall off on their own and other times must be cut out with a router. The amount of finish work needed also affects price.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by mikelhenry

Any idea on the cost? .

To give an idea of work involved,

Disclaimer : This is my way and does not mean it cannot be done another way, and, I am not inferring my way is the only way.

The binding is first scored with a razor to seperate any lacquer that may be over the top of it.

The binding can be scraped / heated / peeled or routed off, the exact process is dependant on the guitar and existing binding.

The selected new binding has to be sized both in height and width.

The binding is then glued and taped to the body without the solvent destroying any old finish.

The binding will need a light hand scraping to final dimensions whilst fitted to the guitar.

A lacquer over the binding will likely need to be applied.

The applied lacquer may need to be stained to match any vintage look.

A follow up coat of lacquer to seal the stain in.

Things can go wrong whilst doing this job, there are times that no matter how much care you give and attention to detail given, the finish of the guitar can be permanently damaged. If the body is made of laminate you can ruin the sides / back or top.

Steve

[redir]

The plastic shrinks and cracks off over time. Pretty typical to see that. You could just keep the pieces that fall out and then just glue them back in place with Titebond and be done with it.

[John Arnold]

You could just keep the pieces that fall out and then just glue them back in place with Titebond and be done with it.

I believe that the guitar in question has celluloid binding, which decomposes when it becomes unstable. Unstable celluloid can spontaneously combust, and will release corrosive nitric acid fumes. For those reasons, it is always better to replace bad celluloid, rather that to attempt a repair that is temporary at best.

[redir]

Wow I had no idea. You man that old binding can just ignite in the case? Is there some sort of catalyst that start the reaction?

Is it generally recommended that anyone with those guitars should have this procedure done? Sort of like a recall type thing?

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by redir

? Is there some sort of catalyst that start the reaction?

Opening the case after it's lain undisturbed for ten years under the bed will do it ...especially if you are smoking a cheroot at the time.

[John Arnold]

Is it generally recommended that anyone with those guitars should have this procedure done? Sort of like a recall type thing?

The problem with a blanket recall of guitars is that the decomposition is hard to predict. Unstable celluloid could possibly be traced to certain bad batches, but without any documentation, it would be nearly impossible. The most famous examples are 1940's and 1950's D'Angelico guitars, where the celluloid binding material was sourced in the New York area. Gretsch guitars from the same period probably used the same source. The last celluloid maker in the US was gone by 1970, so the celluloid used on a 1970's Gibson was either old stock, or sourced from outside the US.
Older Gibsons and Martins don't seem to have as much problem with celluloid. One factor that will accelerate degradation is a refinish with lacquer. The lacquer tends to leach out camphor, which is added to celluloid during the manufacturing to stabilize it.
Celluloid that is going bad will smell like vinegar (acid), rather than camphor.

[mikelhenry]

Thanks all for the input. I've been away form the computer for a couple days.

I started yesterday looking for a luthier to do the job. My go-to guy for many years who disappeared and recently resurfaced gave me suggestions of other people to contact, which I think I will do since he is not the kind of guy who would turn away work.

Gibson's warranty contact on the phone tried to argue with me that this was not warranty work since "... most warranty part failures take place in the first four years of ownership..."! When I asked him if there was a Gibson authorized repairman in Virginia, he referred me to Guitar Center!!!!!

I am not expecting this to be an inexpensive job but the guitar does me no good in the case. I'll also probably get the neck reset at the same time since it is close to needing that done.

It is not possible to simply re-glue the pieces as the binding is disintegrating into small, <1/8" chips.

I count myself lucky this has not happened before now. I remember as long ago as 20 years seeing one of these guitars with chips missing from the binding, but always thought it was from abuse.

[redir]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

The problem with a blanket recall of guitars is that the decomposition is hard to predict. Unstable celluloid could possibly be traced to certain bad batches, but without any documentation, it would be nearly impossible. The most famous examples are 1940's and 1950's D'Angelico guitars, where the celluloid binding material was sourced in the New York area. Gretsch guitars from the same period probably used the same source. The last celluloid maker in the US was gone by 1970, so the celluloid used on a 1970's Gibson was either old stock, or sourced from outside the US.
Older Gibsons and Martins don't seem to have as much problem with celluloid. One factor that will accelerate degradation is a refinish with lacquer. The lacquer tends to leach out camphor, which is added to celluloid during the manufacturing to stabilize it.
Celluloid that is going bad will smell like vinegar (acid), rather than camphor.

Very interesting, thanks.