#16
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Song writers ? No. Publishers - Yes.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#17
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Combine them and you get something mewsical, like Cats.
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#18
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All this comparison is a bit premature ... if any of these writers, regardless of the genre, form, etc. are still being read and/or listened to as Shakespeare still is today, then, I’d say we have room to say they are of all time. Then again. We’ll never know. If it means something to you, that is the true measure today. I know there are things I listen to again and again and have for decades. Similarly, I also re-read certain authors works in the same manner. It makes no difference if others do.
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#19
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When you say there isn't much there I'm not sure what you are trying to say. What is much? Granted anybody can write a song. The popularity of a song does not mean it is any good. It just means it's popular and there can be many different reasons for that. The idea that some or many give something or somebody credit or whatever means just that. Many obviously don't. When I look at the result of an artists labor my personal litmus test is if I can do as well or better in expressing myself in the same way. If I think I can I feel I have a right to voice my opinion. If not I can only state whether I like it or not. But that's me ....
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#20
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When done by one with skill, running a rack of nine ball should make the average person watching think “this is so simple, I can do it”
I feel like the same is true for songwriting. To make a powerful statement, a vivid picture, tell a story etc, with just a few sentences that seem so simple you think you could’ve written them yourself. That’s when you know someone is a master |
#21
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It's not awarded posthumously .
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#22
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This!
Have you read It's One For The Money? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-One-Mon.../dp/1472111907 - a brilliant history of how songwriting was monetized by publishers over the last 100 years or so: for their benefit, of course, not for the songwriters themselves. Having said that, the concept of "intellectual property" is a tricky one. Creators should be rewarded for their work - but how much, and in what way? When something like copyright can be bought and sold, something smells funny somewhere...
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#23
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Well, this was a pretty good choice. I of course know this song, but I don't think I've ever sat down and read the lyrics. And having done so, I'm still not sure I understand it, and will need to read it again and think about it.
But it has some very nice qualities, and some great lines. |
#24
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Quote:
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#25
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I could not DISAGREE more. You need to cover a writer's catalog (song or literature) in it's entirety, and in context to be able to measure why they are considered relevant, or poignant. Dylan is not considered 'profound' or 'relevant' because he was popular. He has remained 'profound' and 'relevant' through many phases of society. His lyrics are amazing. And we won't know for at least 404 years after he dies (that's where we are marking time with William Shakespeare's place in history in 2020) I don't think lyricists are overrated at all. |
#26
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I know Dorothy Parker a little bit, and just spent some time reading some of her stuff. I liked it. It seemed miles beyond, "Don't Fear the Reaper" to me, but that's a bit of a tangent. Or is it, as I'm still trying to work out my point. Is it that the average poet is miles above the average songwriter, or that the best poets are better than the best songwriters. Or something else. It's still turning over in my mind, but I've already opened the can of worms. I had a listen to The Waterboys' "The Stolen Child", which was kind of an odd song/spoken word tune. To me these lyrics/words are really, really good. Just the images, the beautiful language sounds Yeats could put together make me think he is a master. And in a very song like structure. Where dips the rocky highland Of Sleuth Wood in the lake, There lies a leafy island Where flapping herons wake The drowsy water rats; There we've hid our faery vats, Full of berries And of reddest stolen cherries. Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a faery, hand in hand. For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. Where the wave of moonlight glosses The dim grey sands with light, Far off by furthest Rosses We footed all the night, Weaving olden dances Mingling hands and mingling glances Till the moon has taken flight; To and fro we leap And chase the frothy bubbles, While the world is full of troubles And is anxious in its sleep. Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a faery, hand in hand, For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. Where the wandering water gushes From the hills above Glen-Car, In pools among the rushes That scarce could bathe a star, We seek for slumbering trout And whispering in their ears Give them unquiet dreams; Leaning softly out From ferns that drop their tears Over the young streams. Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a faery, hand in hand, For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. Away with us he's going, The solemn-eyed: He'll hear no more the lowing Of the calves on the warm hillside Or the kettle on the hob Sing peace into his breast, Or see the brown mice bob Round and round the oatmeal chest. For he comes, the human child, To the waters and the wild With a faery, hand in hand, For the worldÂ’s more full of weeping than he can understand. |
#27
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But I can see I have my work cut out for me here. Might have been easier over at the Goodreads forum. |
#28
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If that is correct, my reply would be that song lyrics generally fall short of prose, and the addition of a musical requirement doesn't make up the gap. |
#29
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But again, I started this thread because of my hesitance to recognize songwriters as literary greats. Quote:
Yet here we have Dylan and Yeats winning the same honor. |
#30
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The line about Shakespeare was a joke, hence the wink, as it only stared in 1901. I don't really follow your use of the word, "prodigiousness". This is more a discussion of quality than quantity. And what his catalog sold for seems irrelevant, so I think I'm missing your point. |