Custom Builds-Mistakes to avoid?

[TrustDrew]

Good evening, currently working out a custom parlor from an amazing local luthier I discovered years back. I’m leaning on him for most of the ideas but do want to keep some originality and personal touch to keep it ‘custom’.
What are some mistakes to avoid/recommendations when getting a custom guitar built?

[colins]

Have a read of this thread, and maybe search the custom section for similar threads.

Best advice I can give after multiple custom builds (all enjoyable and all guitars still with me) is:

1. Understand why you want a custom build. Is it tone, playability, the whole “individual guitar” thing, something else. Or a mixture of all these? Custom built guitars can be great, but so are many factory or small shop guitars.
2. You have a particular builder in mind, but have you PLAYED THAT BUILDER’S GUITARS before you commit? Each builder has a signature sound and you need to like it. For example, consider Goodall, Martin and Taylor, each has a signature sound and it would be a waste of time and money buying one brand and hoping it will sound like the other. Individual luthiers are just the same.
3. Talk to the builder about the tone and playing characteristics you want and listen to their recommendations.
4. Do not get hung up on particular woods. The selection of builder is far more important. When you have selected a builder whose guitars you have played and liked, only then do you think about which woods to use and that is done in discussion with the builder, who by this time should know your playing style and can match that with his wood stash, his ability to voice the top and his bracing patterns. Please do not give much thought to recommendations about woods given here on the AGF. While they are offered in good spirit, they can be based on limited experience, as well as playing styles and musical preferences that are very different to yours.
5. If the builder does not use a worksheet (and there are word-class builders who do not), think about setting one up as a tool to finalise the design. It should cover everything from nut width to binding preferences, to tuners. I can share one of mine one if you PM me
6. Some builds do end in anger and frustration. Doing your homework can avoid most of the pitfalls, but if possible talk with others that have used the builder you are considering to make sure you are compatible. One way to do this is to enquire about the builder on the Custom page of the AGF.

And then, have fun!

[Mandobart]

I have a few custom built instruments from two different small shop builders. I'm very happy with them. There are likely many others with similar experiences.

Very often you hear about experiences that don't go well. IMO this is usually caused by reality not matching expectations, which is often caused by incomplete communication and unspoken assumptions.

Another consideration is individual personalities. Some folks are simply very hard to please. Or buyer's remorse sets in after delivery. Before you spend the $$ on a custom build, there are infinite possibilities for your custom dream guitar. Once the money is spent and the guitar is delivered those possibilities are gone and you have one single reality, that may or may not match original expectations.

I'd say in addition to knowing what you want/need in terms of tone, dimensions, specs, etc. it's extremely important to know yourself; motivation for wanting a custom build and why nothing else out there in the marketplace will provide what you think you want.

If you are the kind of person who has gone through multiple instruments searching for "the one", only to ultimately be disappointed with each guitar you buy, getting a custom built guitar will not necessarily end your search. If anything, you are more likely to be dissatisfied with your custom guitar, and may find a considerably higher financial loss when you move it along.

The classifieds here often contain "lifer"custom dream guitars that for a variety of reasons didn't live up to the buyer's expectations.

[The Bard Rocks]

Colins gave good advice, advice I am mostly in agreement with. We part ways a bit over woods employed, but that's because I am interested in sampling a variety of woods. Having said that, I admit the sound you end up with depends upon more things than just the specific wood you selected and the sound you want may be achieved in various ways. Once you describe carefully and thoroughly what you hope to end up with (you want everything, right?), let the luthier make suggestions and take them seriously and discuss them with him.

Keep in mind that the part of the process you can most influence by micro-managing is the guitar's final appearance. Let the builder know what you want in size and shape, playability and tone and let him work his particular magic to achieve it. If you have specific ideas about tuners, finish (sunburst, ambertone, natural...), rosette, headstock, purfling...., he or she can most likely do what you want without compromising the rest of the instrument.

Before you start, make a list of all the build specs you can think of if the builder does not already have one and get each one written down with a copy for each of you, so you both know what to expect. If during the build process either of you feel you need to make a change, you can, provided it is discussed beforehand and each of you agrees. This may involve additional charges, but not necessarily.

Keep in touch regularly once things start. each party may have differing ideas on how much contact is acceptable or needed between you and make sure you each understand what the other wants. Sometimes I have been in daily contact for a week, then a couple weeks will pass with no need for input. On one build, I wrote or called every three weeks and that was too often, but that was the exception, one I had been warned about beforehand by others. In every other case, the luthier was happy to go into as much detail as I wanted (which was sometimes quite a lot) and to spend as much time on the phone or computer as I felt I needed.

With that one exception, I came out of it not only with a great guitar, but, I felt, a friend. I should add that the exception yielded a great guitar. Most will take photos along the way and share them with you. I keep a running written dialog of each conversation so that I can refer to it should questions arise. That way, when I am done, I have sort of a little book on the build, illustrated with photos. That has been fun for me.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Avoid:

- port
- cutaway
- slotted headstock
- maple
- nylon
- relicking
- satin finish
- active pickup
- barn door control panel

Get:

- radius fretboard
- TKL case

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Avoid:

- port
- cutaway
- slotted headstock
- maple
- nylon
- relicking
- satin finish
- active pickup
- barn door control panel

Get:

- radius fretboard
- TKL case

This is a particularly unhelpful list given how many incredible custom instruments have one or more of these features (with the exception of a barn door control panel).

The Bard Rocks and Colins were most likely responding to the OP’s reference to the OP’s luthier as “him,” but as generalized advice, I would add “or her” after their references to “him.”

[Guitars44me]

All wise advice from collins, especially this


“If the builder does not use a worksheet (and there are word-class builders who do not), think about setting one up as a tool to finalise the design. It should cover everything from nut width to binding preferences, to tuners. I can share one of mine one if you PM me”

IMHO, you want to know well in advance every detail of what will make it most COMFORTABLE for you to play.

Nut, saddle, scale, NECK CARVE, etc.

And in my case, I DO want a large body 12 fret with wedge, bevels, port high in upper shoulder, cutaway, K&K pup, elevated fretboard, Carbon Fiber reinforcement in the neck,
And slim V/C slightly asymmetrical neck carve.

FINE maple in an EXPERIENCED builders hands can yield a world class guitar! John Kinnard built me one…

ALL cosmetic stuff is secondary for me.

For me, Playability is paramount, but it HAS to have TONE AND VOLUME to spare.

Still, if it sounds FANTASTIC and is not super comfortable it won’t get played much, and will not be a wise purchase for me. As I PLAY my BEST guitars at my now infrequent gigs. Still hoping more come back, post plague…

Get all specs in writing and send to your builder before any work starts.

Make sure they are comfortable with your desires!!! COMMUNICATION IS KEY!!! I want to talk on the phone repeatedly before starting. Some folks do better with talking, some with writing. Use BOTH.

Then let er rip

Have fun

Paul

[Deliberate1]

I am in the midst of a build - my first. Most all the advice stated above is solid and well-considered.

One of the contributors above would be most unhappy with my build, which includes a beautiful Florentine cutaway which, the luthier and I agreed, would facilitate access to the frets north of the 12, since it is a 12 fretter. Oh, and it is made of the most stunning European maple back and sides. According to my builder, Max Spohn, 80% of the sonic qualities is determined by the top (sounding board),and 20% from the back and sides. I think the maple and Florentine look rather nice, though the figure is difficult to fully capture given the reflections.

Carefully judge any garnish and the way it all works together. I considered all manners of fret board and headstock and back adornment which all looked amazing, individually, and theoretically. But, do be careful not to overdo the visuals as you could end up with a guitar that looks like a Christmas tree. Unless, of course, that is the look you want. As you can see, I ultimately elected to have just a thin black line as a back strip. The bold maple figure required no adornment.

The same for the front. Max has a signature rosette design that, I determined was all the front of guitar needed. So no fretboard or headstock inlay. Especially, again given the strong silking present in the Moon Spruce. Sometimes, less really is more.

On the other hand, Max is building a lovely guitar out of Wenge for a pal of mine. Now, that wood is on the opposite end of the bling spectrum - with a deep chocolate color and none of the neon figuring of my maple. His guitar will benefit from the very elegant inlay work he has planned.

Final advice - enjoy the process. It is very exciting.

David

[koolimy]

I don't have experience w/ custom guitars, but I have experience customizing kits that I build myself, so hopefully this provides some insight.

I think the most important thing, as mentioned, is to know yourself. What do you want out of the guitar? What is your ideal tone? Why did you chose the parlor body? What is your playing style? Do you hit hard or play softly? Pick, flesh, or fingerpicks? Do you have any examples of Parlor guitars that you consider really good?

The second thing is to know the builder. One really uncanny aspect of building guitars is noticing how there is a signature sound that comes out of all my builds, no matter what the type and style of guitar. Never go to a builder expecting them to build you a guitar of a different maker. That's setting yourself up for disappointment.

Communication is super important. Understand, both of you are operating with information deficits. Your builder doesn't know your preferences. You don't know how each aspect of your build affects the final product. For example, to you the choice of bridge material might be an aesthetic one, but to the builder it is one of the most important braces on the guitar. So your job is to make sure that the information gap reduces as much as possible. Since you are local, use that to your utmost advantage! Talk w/ the builder face to face. Play their guitars. Bring some of your guitars to let your builder know what you like. Play in front of them so they can see your playing style. Discuss as much as possible each individual choice and its potential effect on the final sound. You should end up more educated about what makes a guitar tick, and the builder should end up more educated about you.

As an important part of communication, discuss expectations and boundaries. Micromanaging a build is an easy way to get a soured relationship and a bad guitar. You need to give the luthier freedom to work, while at the same time express your needs to be included in the process. This is particularly important since you are close, so make sure to discuss it.

Regarding expectations, just going by probability, your guitar will likely turn out to be very good. Not exceptional. It is very very hard to make an exceptional guitar, and often the stuff that makes guitars exceptional is out of the builder's hands. You want to communicate w/ the builder well so that you get a very good guitar that aligns with your preferences.

I would keep an open mind. I found that once I built my first guitar, it sounded very different from what I initially thought it would sound like. Same for my second guitar. But it inevitably sounded good. IMO, guitars are all individuals w/ each having their own beautiful voice. Having an open mind capable of appreciating each guitar's individuality would help increase your enjoyment.

Use this as an opportunity to understand your own preferences more and to learn more about the guitar. Use this as an opportunity to develop a relationship w/ a builder, who you can hopefully go to again, even if it is to just talk guitars. Have fun, and enjoy the ride!

[s2y]

I'd agree the list of things to "avoid" wasn't particularly useful. If anything, I'm willing to order most of those things minus the barn door or slotted headstock on a steel string. Heck, most of my builds violate several of those things. It smells of someone who only likes Martins...but at used pricing because greed!!!!

I was blessed to play someone's Doerr with a maple body, sound port, and I'm pretty sure it had a cutaway. Everything about it was angelic and I might have made an offer to buy it if I were in a financial position, although I'm pretty sure he knows it's a great guitar and probably will keep it for life.

Agree that neck and tone should be the primary and clear cut objectives. It might be worth examining your technique. Rib and forearm bevels are sometimes ordered by right knee players. My technique is largely classical based. A forearm bevel on something big or deep is nice, but generally not something I need for something ~OM sized. A rib bevel isn't necessary. This saves me $$, which I can use for more guitars.

The most important thing is to know what makes YOU happy and how to get there.

[warfrat73]

Don't expect a tiger to change its stripes.

That is, as mentioned before, don't go to Taylor and tell them to build you a Martin. If you try to micromanage the tone and voicing of the instrument, you're likely to be disappointed... let them do what they do best. All the better if you know what that is in advance and know that you like it. Likewise, if they're not quick and reliable communicators from the outset, and you want to hear from your builder every couple of days during the build, don't expect them to suddenly change. Some will communicate regularly as a matter of course, some will focus on the build and communication will be an after thought.

Don't overdo it on personalized cosmetics.

[lfarhadi]

Originally Posted by colins

[*]Talk to the builder about the tone and playing characteristics you want and listen to their recommendations. [*]Do not get hung up on particular woods. The selection of builder is far more important. When you have selected a builder whose guitars you have played and liked, only then do you think about which woods to use and that is done in discussion with the builder, who by this time should know your playing style and can match that with his wood stash, his ability to voice the top and his bracing patterns. Please do not give much thought to recommendations about woods given here on the AGF. While they are offered in good spirit, they can be based on limited experience, as well as playing styles and musical preferences that are very different to yours.[*]If the builder does not use a worksheet (and there are word-class builders who do not), think about setting one up as a tool to finalise the design. It should cover everything from nut width to binding preferences, to tuners. I can share one of mine one if you PM me

This is all great advice.
I would add that it's a good idea to think about every single spec and don't be shy to ask questions if you don't understand the implications of a 16' vs 20' fretboard radius, of the scale length your builder recommends, the recommended and max string gauge, etc. etc.
Also, I highly recommend EVO frets.

[colins]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

...Colins gave good advice, advice I am mostly in agreement with. We part ways a bit over woods employed, but that's because I am interested in sampling a variety of woods...

That’s a good point to raise. I guess I was trying to say focus on the builder before you focus on the woods. Then go for it! I’ve owned great guitars with ten different topwoods and at least as many different tonewoods. But in every case I chose the guitar because of the builder’s signature sound, then let the woods add nuance and visual appeal.

I was also reacting to the threads in the general section that profess a need for a particular wood with no mention of the builder. As an example, I’ve owned three guitars with Engelmann tops. The Goodall sounded like a Goodall, the Martin like a Martin, and the Wingert…you guessed it, it sounded like a Wingert! In each case the set of Englemann added nuance but the choice of builder was far more important to the overall sound.

[Jamiejoon]

One other thought on the list of things to get and avoid: there are lots of good cases out there. You should order a case that suits your situation. If you are having a really nice guitar made for you, you should probably get a nice case, especially if you intend to take the guitar out and about. I have had a number of different fancy cases, and I currently favor Visesnut. They are very strong, and very light, which I value because I have a torn shoulder etc etc and I like to travel with a nice guitar without worrying. Hoffee is really good too, and not too heavy. If I never intended to bring the guitar on a trip, I would get one with the best insulation from changes in heat/humidity (lots of choices, but Calton is really nice albeit HEAVY; Cedar Creek is much less expensive but just fine).

[hubcapsc]

I wanted to shoot for a neck similar to another guitar that I like:



Through the long-distance build process I didn't properly
communicate that my gauge didn't include the thickness of
the fretboard ...

I got an "electric guitar neck" !

-Mike