Red-Eye Preamp or K&K XLR? Need some advice!

imsharris · #1 04-19-2016, 06:56 AM

Okay, I have a little indecision going on and hoping to get a little advice from some people in the know! I currently have a Martin 000-15 and a Gibson L-00 with the Gibson kind of being my main guitar. Both of them have the K&K Pure Mini installed and I absolutely love these pickups. I have always used them without any type of preamp and have been happy with the results. The only compaints if any that I would have with them is that I have occasionally wished for a little more output and it can be a little "bassy and boomy" from time to time. I am wanting to try a preamp out with them to have a little more volume and tone control. I have narrowed my search down to two. The Red-Eye and the K&K XLR. Both have pros and cons and the perfect one would be a combination of both but I could honestly get by with either.

Any thoughts or advice concerning these two with the K&K pickup would be greatly appreciated!

kaos · #2 04-19-2016, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imsharris

Okay, I have a little indecision going on and hoping to get a little advice from some people in the know! I currently have a Martin 000-15 and a Gibson L-00 with the Gibson kind of being my main guitar. Both of them have the K&K Pure Mini installed and I absolutely love these pickups. I have always used them without any type of preamp and have been happy with the results. The only compaints if any that I would have with them is that I have occasionally wished for a little more output and it can be a little "bassy and boomy" from time to time. I am wanting to try a preamp out with them to have a little more volume and tone control. I have narrowed my search down to two. The Red-Eye and the K&K XLR. Both have pros and cons and the perfect one would be a combination of both but I could honestly get by with either.

Any thoughts or advice concerning these two with the K&K pickup would be greatly appreciated!

If you have access to the eq on the PA or Amp you are plugging into, the answer is the redeye. If you plan on using this at open mics where you will not have access to eq ... consider the K&K. If I play a gig with my own equipment (with EQ) I always use my redeye. If I play an open mic, I typically use the K&K and more often then not I have to dial out some bass.

imsharris · #3 04-19-2016, 07:17 AM

I do usually use my own mixer. I have an Allen and Heath ZED 10FX. I try to set the EQ as flat as possible (no idea why I do that!) but I do dial out a little bass on a regular basis. I play mostly solo or with a percussionist (cajon/smaller percussion) and at the most with a small-set drummer and bassist. I honestly play about 50/50 between finger-style and using a pick.

Methos1979 · #4 04-19-2016, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaos

If you have access to the eq on the PA or Amp you are plugging into, the answer is the redeye. If you plan on using this at open mics where you will not have access to eq ... consider the K&K. If I play a gig with my own equipment (with EQ) I always use my redeye. If I play an open mic, I typically use the K&K and more often then not I have to dial out some bass.

^^^THIS^^^

I use my Red Eye at home with my SA220 or Artist amp where I can dial in my own EQ.

But when I go to an Open Mic I bring my own EQ. Up until now it's been a cheap Danelectro Fish & Chips but from this point on it's going to be a K&K preamp (not the XLR). I went with the standard preamp because it's small and I can clip it to my guitar strap and that way have a way to eq on the fly as well as turn down the volume if I need to tune.

Have the ability to EQ at open mics is critical for me because I play fingerstyle with just the fingertips (no nails) so my guitar always sounds very bassy and muddy. I need to really dial out the lows and mids and boost the treble.

imsharris · #5 04-19-2016, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Have the ability to EQ at open mics is critical for me because I play fingerstyle with just the fingertips (no nails) so my guitar always sounds very bassy and muddy. I need to really dial out the lows and mids and boost the treble.

This is the same thing I do. Fingerstyle without nails and I do like my sound to be more smooth and bassy. More of a combination between an acoustic and a jazz box.

akafloyd · #6 04-19-2016, 10:13 AM

If you need tone controls handy then the K&K (or one of many others), if not then the Red-Eye (or one of many others). You'll probably only know by trying them out yourself. Between those two, I prefer the Red-Eye, it sounds better to me without having to make eq adjustments.

imsharris · #7 04-19-2016, 11:32 AM

I really like the idea of the effects loop in the Red Eye. If I am thinking correctly could I add my Boss RC-3 and TU-3 through the effects loop?

Guitar direct into the Red-Eye/effects loop out into TU-3/into RC-3/back into Red-Eye and then Red-Eye directly into mixer?

lschwart · #8 04-19-2016, 11:57 AM

It's nice to have the option of a preamp/DI with some EQ controls for when you are not using your ZED or for when you need to be far enough away from the ZED that using a balanced line is necessary.

As you know, either of the units you mention will work, so it's all down to which features you want most.

One thing: why have you narrowed it down to just these two? There are other options that might come close to combining the features you like from both of these units--depending on what they are.

Also, now that I think about it, when you say that you cut some bass when you use the ZED, does that mean you engage the HPF on the channel or simply that you turn down the low EQ control? The ZED, FWIW, already has very good EQ for acoustic guitar. Better than either the Red Eye or the K&K XLR.

L.

imsharris · #9 04-19-2016, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lschwart

One thing: why have you narrowed it down to just these two? There are other options that might come close to combining the features you like from both of these units--depending on what they are.

Also, now that I think about it, when you say that you cut some bass when you use the ZED, does that mean you engage the HPF on the channel or simply that you turn down the low EQ control? The ZED, FWIW, already has very good EQ for acoustic guitar. Better than either the Red Eye or the K&K XLR.

L.

I have honestly narrowed it down to these two because they are the two that I have seen mentioned the most in other posts and reviews. I usually run my acoustic through a DI box (right now I am getting best results from a LiveWire DI!) and into the ZED. I can honestly say that I am most probably not using the ZED to near its' full potential. I admit to being a very "plug and play" guy and I have really just recently started getting really concerned with tone and wanting to learn as much as possible. I have reached the point that I know the tone I want and I can get very close with what I have now. I just wonder if it could get a little better.

lschwart · #10 04-19-2016, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imsharris

I have honestly narrowed it down to these two because they are the two that I have seen mentioned the most in other posts and reviews. I usually run my acoustic through a DI box (right now I am getting best results from a LiveWire DI!) and into the ZED. I can honestly say that I am most probably not using the ZED to near its' full potential. I admit to being a very "plug and play" guy and I have really just recently started getting really concerned with tone and wanting to learn as much as possible. I have reached the point that I know the tone I want and I can get very close with what I have now. I just wonder if it could get a little better.

If you plan to work without the ZED that's one thing, but I don't think using either the Red Eye or the K&K XLR is going to get you better tone than you can already get with what you have. At best, there might be a modest improvement due to certain aspects of the designs of the two preamps/DIs. Certainly the Red Eye has a reputation for being a very good DI (it has a high quality transformer that might sound better to your ears--or might not--than the one you have in your Live Wire DI). But neither of them offer anything in terms of EQ that you don't already have in equivalent or better quality and in superior controllability on the ZED.

Louis

Methos1979 · #11 04-19-2016, 03:44 PM

I'm always astounded by just how good the Red Eye sounds straight into any PA or amp with the EQ set flat. Every time I get a new EQ or amp or whatever, I set everything flat and plug straight into the amp/PA and play for a while to get a feel for that sound. Then I plug in my new toy (today it was a K&K preamp) and play around with tweaking that. Then for giggles I go back to flat/straight in and then I do back to the Red Eye set flat and it's just amazing how great that sounds. I still need to do some followup EQ'ing to compensate for the small-body guitar that is my Santa Cruz OO, but it still sounds great.

If I know I have a good sound guy that is going to take the time to dial me in correctly then the Red Eye would be all I need. But at an open mic that is usually not the deal, so I like to have the ability to further tweak my tone which usually means dialing out some mids, boosting my treble and then boost or cutting the bass just a tiny bit to fit the room. The other great thing for me about the new K&K is that since I wear in on my pants (clips on my right front pocket) I have the volume control that I can cut to mute to tune or boost if I need a little more. While the Red Eye does have a boost (which I never use) it does not have a mute which I think I would like more.

Br1ck · #12 04-19-2016, 08:00 PM

This EQ for an open mic topic keeps cropping up, enough so I'm going to put in my .02 worth.

I have heard so many people at open mics, with on board Eq especially, destroy their sound from the stage. If you use monitors, you really have no idea what you sound like out front, and you don't get a soundcheck to get both the monitors and the mains dialed in, so what's the point?

Many a time I've thought my sound sucked, only to be told later it was great out front. If I'm not lazy, I take my Carvin AG 300, and the amp is a must if I'm playing bass for a friend. When I do this I dial it in at home and crank the volume at the venue.

This ties back in to using a RedEye, but first you have to rethink the pickup. I am a huge Dazzo supporter for a very specific reason, that being there are no frequency problems because you have tailored the pickup to the guitar. Yes, if I used the middle Dazzo pickup frequency response, probably his 70 set, in all my guitars I'd need a three band parametric EQ to boost bass in my parlor, and cut it in my dreads. But I have 100s, 90s, 70s, and a 60/70 hybrid. I can pretty much plug in my RedEye and tell the guy to set the mixer flat. Smooth frequency into a linear pre direct to amp or board. I have one guitar without Dazzos and it never goes out.

The analogy can be drawn to starting with a phono cartridge, yes I'm vinyl 100%, that presents the sound you want, then everything downstream is flat
quality linear amplification. Want it brighter? That is what Telefunken tubes in the first pre amp gain stage are for. Yes I'm all tube too. No balance or tone controls are needed. So as you might imagine, I'm a fan of fewer, but quality components in a signal chain. And don't get me going on the quality of ad/da digital converters used in most consumer computer and audio devices. I've heard the ones used in recording studios.

donh · #13 04-19-2016, 09:39 PM

Wow. What a lot of noise.

The Redeye is better. Period. Cleaner sound.

I am a fan of K&K, but I find that if I purchase their electronics I must modify them to get closer to what the Redeye is in it's natural state. I love their pickups, and I love them even better when played thru the Redeye product. In any situation.
.

imsharris · #14 04-20-2016, 05:45 AM

Great responses guys! Really gives me something to think about!

colepanther · #15 06-19-2019, 03:52 PM

Hello Donh,
I have a Red Eye I'm using with my D16 with Pure Minis; I recently added a K&K Double Helix for a dual source, so I'm forced to use my K&K Dual Channel Pro and find that, though it sounds reasonable, it's lacking the depth and clarity of the Red Eye. Can you share with me what components you may have replaced in your K&K Pre. Thanks! -Cole