Schertler AG6 vs Fishman Rare Earth Blend vs Skysonic Pro1

[j3ffr0]

Fishman says the batteries last a few weeks which is definitely a downer. I like mine well enough that I plan to do an install on my harp guitar and take batteries out when going a long time without using the pickup. The sound and form factor are worth the battery inconvenience to me. I’ll just keep a cheap multitool in the case....

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Is it worth getting the mic for only live play? since it's barely used (10%)

I think so. It is an omni mic, and somehow it seems to be mostly immune from physical sound coupling. This is something I haven’t seen discussed yet.

Here’s the thing: a mic mounted in a guitar picks up sound two ways: through the air, and through physical coupling where the mic acts like a body sensor. I had a Skysonic FS-1 pickup (their wireless mag/mic pickup), and most of the mic sound was through physical coupling rather than through the air. It made the guitar really sensitive to body rustling sounds more than “mic air”. The Schertler mic is well isolated. You don’t pick up nearly as much clothing squeaks and bumps and yet if you snap your fingers over the soundhole you hear it quite clearly, even at 10%.

The omni mic is a big deal to me. Yes it is more sensitive to feedback than the cardioid mic in the Fishman Rare Earth Blend. It is also less boxy. That is why the REB mic is on a little gooseneck. It is directional so you need to be able to point it. The Schertler S-mic is on a fixed arm because it is omni and doesn’t need to be aimed.

The string to string balance is superb on the Schertler AG-6. Unlike other pickups, it actually has six separate magnetic pickups (one for each string). Each of these goes through it’s own individual class A preamp. Then there is a seventh class A preamp for the mic. I do a lot of intricate stuff with basslines, chording, chording, and melody on top. String to string balance is really important to me. When I had a LR Baggs M80, no matter how much I adjusted the pole pieces, I never could get it right. With the Schertler AG-6, there are no adjustments, but the balance between strings is perfect.

I have Schertler AG-6 pickups mounted in three guitars. I like them that much! I regularly have people come up to me at gigs and tell me it is the best amplified acoustic sound they have ever heard.

[varmonter]

I've had the reb and the
Skysonic. Thought the skysonic
Was a toy. Cheap and poor sounding.
The REB was much better. I now use a baggs m80. But no mic.

[Petty1818]

The AG6 seems like a really cool pickup but the major downside is the price. The magnetic pickup and mic here in Canada are close to $600.00. Personally, the AG6 on its own sounds like any other magnetic pickup so $400 for just it is a bit much. The mic sounds amazing but at 10% for live use, I question how much better it really makes everything sound. Again, it sounds like an awesome option and not trying to knock it, just wish it was a bit more realistic to get.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The AG6 seems like a really cool pickup but the major downside is the price. The magnetic pickup and mic here in Canada are close to $600.00. Personally, the AG6 on its own sounds like any other magnetic pickup so $400 for just it is a bit much. The mic sounds amazing but at 10% for live use, I question how much better it really makes everything sound. Again, it sounds like an awesome option and not trying to knock it, just wish it was a bit more realistic to get.

Wow, that is a lot more than it costs here! The pickup is about $250, plus another $100 for the mic. One way to look at it is that this is the only pickup that actually has a separate pickup and class A preamp for each string and another class A preamp for the mic. That’s only $50 per class A pre-amp!

[lppier]

Originally Posted by massimo

Thanks for the comparison Ippier.

So your review means the Fishman wins over the Schertler also in the "pickup only" category (no mic engaged?). The two high strings are balanced in both? Do you have any comment on battery duration?

Sorry I just saw this post... I don’t have the schertler so I have no basis for comparison. I was comparing between reb and magmic. Battery wise I never measured - both feel like they last pretty Long to me.
I don’t find anything unbalanced about the Reb all the way to the magnetic pickup - it’s meant to be voiced to sound acoustic, maybe that’s what you’re hearing?

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

Fishman says the batteries last a few weeks which is definitely a downer. I like mine well enough that I plan to do an install on my harp guitar and take batteries out when going a long time without using the pickup. The sound and form factor are worth the battery inconvenience to me. I’ll just keep a cheap multitool in the case....

Manual says 240 hours for the RE by itself, and 110 hours for the Blend. A few weeks seems conservative... unless you play all day everyday.

[RandyOK]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I think so. It is an omni mic, and somehow it seems to be mostly immune from physical sound coupling. This is something I haven’t seen discussed yet.

Here’s the thing: a mic mounted in a guitar picks up sound two ways: through the air, and through physical coupling where the mic acts like a body sensor. I had a Skysonic FS-1 pickup (their wireless mag/mic pickup), and most of the mic sound was through physical coupling rather than through the air. It made the guitar really sensitive to body rustling sounds more than “mic air”. The Schertler mic is well isolated. You don’t pick up nearly as much clothing squeaks and bumps and yet if you snap your fingers over the soundhole you hear it quite clearly, even at 10%.

The omni mic is a big deal to me. Yes it is more sensitive to feedback than the cardioid mic in the Fishman Rare Earth Blend. It is also less boxy. That is why the REB mic is on a little gooseneck. It is directional so you need to be able to point it. The Schertler S-mic is on a fixed arm because it is omni and doesn’t need to be aimed.

The string to string balance is superb on the Schertler AG-6. Unlike other pickups, it actually has six separate magnetic pickups (one for each string). Each of these goes through it’s own individual class A preamp. Then there is a seventh class A preamp for the mic. I do a lot of intricate stuff with basslines, chording, chording, and melody on top. String to string balance is really important to me. When I had a LR Baggs M80, no matter how much I adjusted the pole pieces, I never could get it right. With the Schertler AG-6, there are no adjustments, but the balance between strings is perfect.

I have Schertler AG-6 pickups mounted in three guitars. I like them that much! I regularly have people come up to me at gigs and tell me it is the best amplified acoustic sound they have ever heard.

How is the battery life on the AG6 with S-Mic?

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by RandyOK

How is the battery life on the AG6 with S-Mic?

Hi Randy - glad to see you're still checking in on this thread! I believe the manufacturer states that a battery should last a couple hundred hours in the AG6.

I had the AG6 with S-Mic and it was a decent pickup. On the plus side it was very small and lightweight and sounded pretty good. For me it was not the end-all, be-all I'd hoped. I'd been looking for a great sounding sound hole pickup and I went through several including the LR Baggs M80 and the Dimarzio Black Angel. All were good in their own way but all sounded a little electric to me.

I really didn't want an active pickup because I always fear a dead battery. Sure as heck that happened to me with the AG6. First time out to an open mic and dead battery even though it was supposed to be a brand new battery. This along with the inability to move the pole pieces (they are sealed) to balance the tone led me to abandon the AG6.

I also found the S-mic did not add anything for live play as you just can't dial up enough mic to sweeten the tone before you get feedback. This has always been my problem with internal condenser mics in dual source pickup systems. I have heard that it is much better if you're just recording though. Then you can dial it up much farther and get a much better tone.

In the end I went with a K&K Double Helix Solo pickup which sounded great all by itself and is passive - no battery. Plus it has an awesome tone boost switch that works really well for going back and forth from strumming and fingerstyle.

I've got a couple reviews and demos on it. It's also made to be combined with the K&K Pure Mini for even better tone if you want dual source. This video demo from K&K's owner, Dieter Kundel sold me on the this pickup - listen with good headphones:

[meb]

Originally Posted by RandyOK

How is the battery life on the AG6 with S-Mic?

I managed to gig with the AG-6/S-Mic Combo for a few months without
ever exactly figuring out how long a battery lasted. I just changed it
any time I got paranoid about it failing. It never died at a gig, but
practicing, they would some times get weak. I just assumed I had accidently
left it plugged in and drained the battery. I still have no idea whether the
S-mic affected battery life.

When I could dial the mic in which was most of the time, the sound was very
good. Many times, I could get better sound from my Black Angel. I
eventually got a Sunrise, which was the best of both worlds....better
sound and no battery.

Since then, I also tried the Blackstack and Rare Earth Blend, both of which
I think are better choices. But I must admit, I have not yet gigged with the
REB to really put it thru the paces. ymmv.

[lkingston]

I absolutely Love my Schertler AG-6/S-Mic pickup: so much so in fact that I took other pickups out of my other guitars and now have three Schertler equiped guitars.

The S-mic is an omnidirectional mic. An omnidirectional mic right in the sound hole will feed back if it is turned up. Initially this seems like a bad design, but it really isn't.

Let me explain:

The magnetic pickup sounds wonderful. It is actually six pickups: one for each string. Each string also has its own class A preamp. The sound is warm and articulate and works well on it's own.

Adding just a touch of the mic just gives it that little bit of 'mic air" that it is missing. I use maybe 20% mic live. That's all it needs. The sound is simply wonderful!

That's live with monitors or an acoustic amp. Recording, you can turn the mic all the way up. The magnetic pickup is still there, but you don't hear it. In this instance it just augments the low frequencies. There is a crossover which assigns the lows more to the pickup, and the highs to the mic.

One thing that I particularly like about the S-Mic is how well isolated it is from handling noise. You can barely hear it when you physically touch the mic. It doesn't exaggerate fret squeak our body touches like my M-80 did. That used to drive me nuts!

Anyway, it may not be fore everyone, but I love it!

[RandyOK]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Hi Randy - glad to see you're still checking in on this thread! I believe the manufacturer states that a battery should last a couple hundred hours in the AG6.

I had the AG6 with S-Mic and it was a decent pickup. On the plus side it was very small and lightweight and sounded pretty good. For me it was not the end-all, be-all I'd hoped. I'd been looking for a great sounding sound hole pickup and I went through several including the LR Baggs M80 and the Dimarzio Black Angel. All were good in their own way but all sounded a little electric to me.

I really didn't want an active pickup because I always fear a dead battery. Sure as heck that happened to me with the AG6. First time out to an open mic and dead battery even though it was supposed to be a brand new battery. This along with the inability to move the pole pieces (they are sealed) to balance the tone led me to abandon the AG6.

I also found the S-mic did not add anything for live play as you just can't dial up enough mic to sweeten the tone before you get feedback. This has always been my problem with internal condenser mics in dual source pickup systems. I have heard that it is much better if you're just recording though. Then you can dial it up much farther and get a much better tone.

In the end I went with a K&K Double Helix Solo pickup which sounded great all by itself and is passive - no battery. Plus it has an awesome tone boost switch that works really well for going back and forth from strumming and fingerstyle.

I've got a couple reviews and demos on it. It's also made to be combined with the K&K Pure Mini for even better tone if you want dual source. This video demo from K&K's owner, Dieter Kundel sold me on the this pickup - listen with good headphones:

Is there a way to mix the double helix with the trinity pro mic similar to the Schertler or REB? ? I like the air that a mic adds to the sound.

[RandyOK]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I absolutely Love my Schertler AG-6/S-Mic pickup: so much so in fact that I took other pickups out of my other guitars and now have three Schertler equiped guitars.

The S-mic is an omnidirectional mic. An omnidirectional mic right in the sound hole will feed back if it is turned up. Initially this seems like a bad design, but it really isn't.

Let me explain:

The magnetic pickup sounds wonderful. It is actually six pickups: one for each string. Each string also has its own class A preamp. The sound is warm and articulate and works well on it's own.

Adding just a touch of the mic just gives it that little bit of 'mic air" that it is missing. I use maybe 20% mic live. That's all it needs. The sound is simply wonderful!

That's live with monitors or an acoustic amp. Recording, you can turn the mic all the way up. The magnetic pickup is still there, but you don't hear it. In this instance it just augments the low frequencies. There is a crossover which assigns the lows more to the pickup, and the highs to the mic.

One thing that I particularly like about the S-Mic is how well isolated it is from handling noise. You can barely hear it when you physically touch the mic. It doesn't exaggerate fret squeak our body touches like my M-80 did. That used to drive me nuts!

Anyway, it may not be fore everyone, but I love it!

I am leaning this direction... I guess I could get the Schertler for my Stonebridge G23 CRc and the REB for my Larrivée OM40-R to give it a good comparison I guess. But I don’t want to spend that much money right now.
I keep coming back to the Schertler even though it’s a bit more money than the REB when you add the mic.

[lkingston]

The REB is a cardiod mic, the Schertler is Omni. I imagine the REB is less prone to feeding back, but I would have less of an Omni mic personally even if I can only dial a little in. The REB let's you use a stereo cable to separate the mic and pickup. The AG6 does not.